Bad Music is Destroying the Church

Quester, You are wasting your breath - er keyboard - with this guy. He has HIJACKED this thread. At first, that fact escaped me; but not now.

NO ONE has wished or tried to MAKE him play a guitar, or piano, oboe, dulcimer or kazoo in his church. He is accepted by God in his convictions of right and wrong as HE understands scripture; but does not seem willing to just shut up condemning others' convictions of right and wrong as THEY understand scripture.

I would post a reply directly to him, but I do not speak to thread hijackers once I realize that's what they're doing. AGREEING TO DISAGREE would save us all a lot of aggravation, but only getting the last word with one-line zingers seems to suffice in this case.

361 posted on 10/27/2006 11:27:55 AM PDT by Twinkie ("I Love Reading Mia T's Threads!" exclaimed Lulu.)

Anyone who wishes me to stop posting on this thread only needs to stop responding to me. If you wish to continue this discussion, I am willing.

362 posted on 10/27/2006 11:35:52 AM PDT by jkl1122

Don't hold your breath.

363 posted on 10/27/2006 11:41:12 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (God has blessed Republicans with political enemies who are going senile.)

To: Balding_Eagle

Have it your way.

God Bless.

364 posted on 10/27/2006 11:49:22 AM PDT by jkl1122

I was trying to make a point that the old covenant is no longer in effect.

Right ... we no longer keep any Law ... for we are saved, strictly, by Grace.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are you saved, through faith, ... and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.
And the basis for this new Convenant we are a part of ... is Love.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

...

12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

So, then, Paul tells us to avoid getting all hung up on ... what some think that we, as christians, should or should not do.

In the very book and chapter you most recently cited (Galatians 5) ... Paul warns us not to get all bound up in anything that hinders our liberty in Christ.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

...

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
For this reason, we (as christians) are cautioned against judgemental toward our fellow christians ... over minute differences in belief and practice.

For Christ has given us the liberty to not be bound by such unbending law (or belief)
Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.

8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
Now ... no doubt you will say that you do not believe that the issue of instrumental music in christian worship is the same sort of issue that Paul discusses above ... but I believe that it is.

365 posted on 10/27/2006 1:18:07 PM PDT by Quester

We only have liberty when we have not been given specific instruction regarding something. It makes no sense to say that we can disobey a specific command just because we have liberty in other things.

366 posted on 10/27/2006 1:20:46 PM PDT by jkl1122

We only have liberty when we have not been given specific instruction regarding something. It makes no sense to say that we can disobey a specific command just because we have liberty in other things.

What specific command is being disobeyed ... in regard to musical instruments ?

367 posted on 10/27/2006 1:30:13 PM PDT by Quester

We are told specifically to sing and make melody in our hearts. There is no mention of mechanical instruments of music in this command. Also, there are no examples of the 1st century church using them in their worship. That is the Scriptural evidence that we have. If you want, you can even look at historical evidence. It wasn't until several centuries after the church began that mechanical instruments of music were used in Christian worship.

368 posted on 10/27/2006 1:36:08 PM PDT by jkl1122

We are told specifically to sing and make melody in our hearts. There is no mention of mechanical instruments of music in this command. Also, there are no examples of the 1st century church using them in their worship. That is the Scriptural evidence that we have. If you want, you can even look at historical evidence. It wasn't until several centuries after the church began that mechanical instruments of music were used in Christian worship.

I'm not violating the command you cite ... by incorporating musical instruments to accompany singing in worship.

The command says to make melody in my heart ... which I do ... in worship and in my general christian life ... and my ability to make music in my heart is not hampered by the accompaniment of instrumental music.

369 posted on 10/27/2006 1:52:45 PM PDT by Quester

I was merely pointing out what you believe. I felt it important, based on your answering a question dealing with a matter that is only covered in the New Testament.

I can comment on any book available to the public without your consent.

371 posted on 10/27/2006 3:55:36 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant

To: Invincibly Ignorant

I never said you could not comment on the New Testament.

372 posted on 10/27/2006 6:25:57 PM PDT by jkl1122

373 posted on 11/06/2006 10:05:17 AM PST by tmp02 (Do you spend more time reading the Bible or listening to music?)

Nadab and Abihu obviously thought they were not violating a command of God as well, and we all know what happened to them.

374 posted on 11/09/2006 9:40:58 AM PST by jkl1122

Nadab and Abihu obviously thought they were not violating a command of God as well, and we all know what happened to them.

God was quite demonstrative in His rebuke of Nadab and Abihu, albiet in a particularly Old Testament fashion (i.e as to those under the Law rather than under Grace).

I think we would have to presume that Nadab and Abihu were well-trained for their priestly duties (all of which we are not privy to), ... so I'm not sure that we can say that they weren't aware that they were violating the command of God.

I have not seen (nor do I know of) any comparable rebuke from God regarding the use of instrumental music in Christian worship.

Once again, the command to "sing and make melody in your hearts" ... does not dis-include the use of instrumental music.

I sing and make melody in my heart consistently at numerous points in my Christian life and service (in worship and outside of worship), ... though I do attend a church which makes use of instrumental music.

Jesus stressed to His listeners that they should be more zealous for the 'spirit' of the Law, ... rather than the 'letter' of the Law.

And ... of course ... Christians are not under the Law anyway ... but are, rather, under grace. As such, we are recipients of the gracious treatment which God shows unto us as the best of Fathers, ... rather than the recipients of the Godly condemnations which seemed to be more prevelant under the Law in the Old Testament.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Regarding worship, Jesus emphasizes that we should worship God in Spirit and in truth.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
It is the attitude of the heart which determines the acceptability of worship by God.

And a heart which is genuine in its worship of God will not disappoint Him in how that worship is carried out.

The people of God ... are led by the Spirit of God. To the extent that we are so led ... we will be pleasing to God in all that we do.
Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

...

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

375 posted on 11/10/2006 9:23:52 AM PST by Quester

Nadab and Abihu "offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not" (Leviticus 10:1). They were wrong because they did something for which they had no authority.

I have not seen (nor do I know of) any comparable rebuke from God regarding the use of instrumental music in Christian worship.

So since God has not struck anyone dead for using a mechanical instrument of music in Christian worship, it must be alright? I think not.

Once again, the command to "sing and make melody in your hearts" ... does not dis-include the use of instrumental music.

Nadab and Abihu were not commanded to use strange fire, nor were they commanded to not use it either. And yet, they violated the will of God by using it.

I agree that we are to worship God in spirit and in truth. This necessarily implies that we are to do so in a manner that is reverent, as well as in the way that God has commanded us to worship. We have been commanded to sing praises to God and to make melody in our hearts. We have not been commanded to use mechanical instruments of music in our worship of Him. To do so is to worship God according to one's own opinion, and not strictly according to the truth of God's Word.

376 posted on 11/10/2006 10:09:30 AM PST by jkl1122

Good grief, is this thread still alive?!?

377 posted on 11/10/2006 10:10:37 AM PST by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)

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