As I have pointed out above, the precise length of Peter's bishopric in Rome is irrelevant to the legitimacy of the Catholic Church. Almost all scholars (Protestants included) agree that Peter was in Rome and that he was martyred in Rome. Archaeologists in the 1940s discovered what appears to be the tomb of Peter under the foundation of Old St. Peter's cathedral in the Vatican. The ancient graffiti said, "Peter is here". The skeleton inside is missing its feet, as if the feet were chopped off. That would make sense, since presumably the easiest way to remove from a cross the body of a man crucified upside down would be to chop off his feet.
-A8
Was Mark Peter's son?
The whole pontifical deification or elevation of Peter as head of the Roman edifice
is poorly supported by anything . . . including his being in Rome or whatever else archeology etc. may support.
The edifice built around Peter is UNBiblical in it's operation, it's motivation, it's structure, it's tone, it's attitude, it's laws, rules, pollicies, . . . a list of ways.
I Cor 14 is the pattern for the New Testament Church. Doesn't match up much with current and historical Romanism. Thankfully, some small Roman groups practice it currently.
And, I suspect, that from God's perspective, those small groups and the no name folks in them have a GREAT LOT MORE weight, authority, anointing from God's perspective than the Pope and all the Cardinals in Rome put together.
Qx: And certainly insufficient anything to build such an incredibly granitized, fossilized, tyrannical RELIGIOUS STRUCTURE and organization/institution of so much abusiveness to so many individuals over so many centuries!
A8: As I have pointed out above, the precise length of Peter's bishopric in Rome is irrelevant to the legitimacy of the Catholic Church.
Qx: Lots of folks point out lots of things in lots of ways that I hold to be untrue.
Qx: In some respects, I agree, Peter way back then doesn't have much relevance to the legitimacy of the Roman group at this point in time. The anointing has probably been gone in a generic organizational sense for a very long time.
A8: Almost all scholars (Protestants included) agree that Peter was in Rome and that he was martyred in Rome.
Qx: Sometimes a majority of scholars signifies truth, sometimes not. A majority felt that the sun rotated around the earth at one time.
A8: Archaeologists in the 1940s discovered what appears to be the tomb of Peter under the foundation of Old St. Peter's cathedral in the Vatican. The ancient graffiti said, "Peter is here". The skeleton inside is missing its feet, as if the feet were chopped off. That would make sense, since presumably the easiest way to remove from a cross the body of a man crucified upside down would be to chop off his feet.
Qx: Yeah, I was at the Vatican. I toured such sites. Still didn't impress me a lot. I certainly do not construe Peter has having been any sort of 'lording it over' other Bishops sort of Bishop of anything--and certainly not the Christian church universal.
Qx: Well before Peter appeared in Rome, IF, he did, Holy Spirit was the one in charge of and leading clusters of Christians. Wherever the Christians went on and did their own thing apart from Holy Spirit's leading, certainly the anointing left or at a minimum was greatly diminished to relatively no impact.
Qx: In a lot of respects . . . EVEN IF--though I'm utterly convinced that Christ did not--but EVEN IF Christ appointed Peter as the Romans construe it . . . What has happened since is very UnBiblical and out of Character with Christ and with what Christ did and was doing with Peter . . . and with the New Testament model of Holy Spirit being in charge of meetings.
Qx: Study the Welsh revival of what--the 1700's? I forget. when the I Cor 14 sorts of meetings with Holy Spirit in charge eventually transformed into structured meetings with leadership which immediately began to do THEIR own thing instead of Holy Spirit's thing . . . then Holy Spirit withdrew and the miracles and conversions stopped, decreased to essentially nothing.
Qx: The same has gone on with the Roman group perhaps from even before it was formally declared such.
Qx: Certainly it's gone on with many other groups before and since.
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