The history of the human Roman organization is full of blazing brazen examples to the opposite.
Name one example in the history of the Catholic Church of orthodoxy being determined by the laity instead of the bishops.
Absolute power corrupting absolutely has been exemplified worst in RELIGIOUS organizations up until probably Hitler.
First, neither the Pope nor the bishops have "absolute power". Second, Christ is the one who gave ruling authority to the Apostles, and through them to the bishops they ordained. Seemingly, on your view, Christ should not have ordained Apostles and bishops. The fact that secular political authorities sometimes abuse their authority does not imply that we should rebel against the bishops, or that orthodoxy is not determined by them.
Augustine was wiser than to have made such a brash statement. Evidently his biases blinded him.
Or, your anti-institutional bias is blinding you. Which is more likely, that you are blinded, or that the great saint Augustine (and all the fathers, since they all agreed with him) were blinded?
it is not the Roman Hierarchy per se that determines orthdoxy--as 20,000+ different John SKERRIAN FLIPFLOPS
Please name one 'flipflop' in Catholic *dogma*. Just one.
-A8
I don't recall my fingers stuttering. I don't recall mentioning the laity. That was not my point. The point I was responding to was that the Bishops--AND PARTICULARLY THE !!!LEADING, TOP, [POLITICALLY SUCCESSFUL] ROMAN!!! BISHOP et al decided orthodoxy flawlessly . . . particularly compared to the 20,000 Protestant idiot groups.
WHEN that clearly has not been the case at many times in the Roman group's history. I think the points below reiterated will affirm that.
Absolute power corrupting absolutely has been exemplified worst in RELIGIOUS organizations up until probably Hitler.
First, neither the Pope nor the bishops have "absolute power".
Methinks that the folks on the racks during the Inquisition would beg to differ. There were other similar periods when the power to declare Church law and have it faithfully carried out was rather more absolute than it often appears in our era.
Seemingly, on your view, Christ should not have ordained Apostles and bishops.
HOGWASH. God ordained/anointed SPIRITUAL leaders throughout history. AND, HE TOOK THEM OUT OR REMOVED THE ANOINTING from every remotely long line of them sooner or later because they failed to walk intimately with HIM and do HIS THINGS vs their own stuff.
The fact that secular political authorities sometimes abuse their authority does not imply that we should rebel against the bishops, or that orthodoxy is not determined by them.
I'm not talking about SECULAR POLITICAL authorities. I'm talking about RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION POLITICAL authorities. The Pope and Cardinals have been plenty abusive 100's of tiems, conservatively--more likely thousands--over the course of history. This is common knowledge. Better scholars than I on the topic can rub faces in such historical facts if it's demanded. Not my preference. The Inquisition is but one period of such.
Or, your anti-institutional bias is blinding you. Which is more likely, that you are blinded, or that the great saint Augustine (and all the fathers, since they all agreed with him) were blinded?
I think God and Augustine himself will answer that in the direction I've posted . . . in due course.
it is not the Roman Hierarchy per se that determines orthdoxy--as 20,000+ different John SKERRIAN FLIPFLOPS
Please name one 'flipflop' in Catholic *dogma*. Just one.
I think eggregious indulgences would be one. Papal philandering outside of marriage could be construed as another. I'm sure other folks with a better memory for such could list dozens if not 100's of such cases. There were variouis pollitical land grabs at various points in history that were not at all Christ-like--or even remotely moral.