[Uncle Chip]

I found this from F.A. Sullivan in From Apostles to Bishops, Newman Press, a Catholic source often quoted in the Catholic Encyclopedia, Nihil Obstated and Imprimatured:

"Admittedly the Catholic position, that bishops are successors of the apostles by divine institution, remains far from easy to establish . . . The first problem has to do with the notion that Christ ordained apostles as bishops . . . The apostles were missionaries and founders of churches; there is no evidence, nor is it at all likely, that any one of them ever took up permanent residence in a particular church as its bishop . . . The letter of the Romans to the Corinthians, known as I Clement, which dates to about the year 96, provides good evidence that about 30 years after the death of St. Paul, the church of Corinth was being led by a group of presbyters, with no indication of a bishop with the authority over the whole local church . . . Most scholars are of the opinion that the church of Rome would most probably have been led at that time by a group of presbyters . . . There exists a broad consensus among scholars, including most Catholic ones, that such churches as Alexandria, Philippi, Corinth, and Rome most probably continued to be led for some time by a college of presbyters, and that only in the second century did the threefold structure become generally the rule, with a bishop, assisted by presbyters, presiding over each local church."

Isn't honest scholarship refreshing. A Catholic scholar who also disagrees with Jerome and Eusebius. According to honest Catholic scholars, the first Roman Church was a Presbyterian Church. The See of Rome was built on presbyterians not St. Peter or a bishopric attributed to him. Is that not a bit humorous?

Was F A Sullivan part of that vaunted Magisterium? Why don't we hear more from these honest Catholic scholars who also don't believe Jerome or Eusebius, and the great legend of Peter's 25 year Roman bishopric? Or maybe after writing this he became a Presbyterian.

[adiaireton8]

There is no essential disagreement between Sullivan and Eusebius or Jerome. The term 'presbyteros' was used in multiple senses originally, sometimes simply to refer broadly to the leaders of the church. And early on, as I pointed out above, there were in some cases multiple bishops along with multiple priests in the same church; the entire leadership could then be called 'presbyteois' in this broader sense. But the Church from the very beginning has understood the difference in sacramental *orders* between those who could ordain (i.e. bishops) and those who could not (priests), and those who could not offer the Eucharistic sacrifice (deacons). The problems that Clement of Rome addresses in his letter to the church at Corinth may very well have been on account of Corinth for some reason not having a bishop. (I don't know the early clerical history of the church at Corinth.)

-A8

[adiaireton8]

F.A. Sullivan in From Apostles to Bishops, Newman Press, a Catholic source often quoted in the Catholic Encyclopedia, Nihil Obstated and Imprimatured:

Which Catholic encylopedia would that be?

Since you have already shown yourself to be willing to make things up, I'm not going to accept your claim that Sullivan's book has the nihil obstat, without some verification.

-A8

[wmfights]

"According to honest Catholic scholars, the first Roman Church was a Presbyterian Church."
_________________________________

FWIW, the Didache also supports this in it's instructions in how to treat Prophets and Teachers. The church was clearly congregational with elders determined from the community by their "walk".

[Quix]

PRAISE GOD FOR SOME TRUTHFULNESS about history!

Actually the group leadership of the larger group locally is VERY CONSISTENT with I Corinthians 14.

Interesting how the Biblical model was followed so widely for quite a number of years, decades before the institutional rot set in.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Isn't honest scholarship refreshing. A Catholic scholar who also disagrees with Jerome and Eusebius. According to honest Catholic scholars, the first Roman Church was a Presbyterian Church. The See of Rome was built on presbyterians not St. Peter or a bishopric attributed to him. Is that not a bit humorous?

LOLOL. Amen! Saints chuckling all the way to heaven. 8~)