Alamo-Girl: To the contrary, it has everything to do with the incarnation of Christ (I prefer the word enflesh, btw.) The Comforter could not and did not come until Jesus Christ died, resurrected and returned to heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. (John 14:26, John 15:26, John 16:7)
A8: Was there no "divine revelation" before Christ's incarnation? If there was "divine revelation" prior to Christ's incarnation, then, just as I said above, "divine revelation" per se has nothing to do with matter or the incarnation.
Regarding the scientific things to which you refer, you seem to assume that matter, if it exists, must belong to the investigative domain of experimental, instrumental science. But the concept of matter that is revelant to this discussion is *philosophical*, not scientific in the experimental sense. So the outcome of scientific studies on, for example, dark matter etc., is entirely irrelevant to whether we live in a material world.
If you think that "reality is an illusion", then how can you affirm that Jesus Christ came in the flesh? It seems that you could only affirm that Jesus Christ *appeared* to come in the flesh. But that is docetism, which is gnosticism. According to the Apostle John, every spirit that denies that Jesus came in the flesh is the spirit of the antichrist. (1 John 4:2-3)
That theology is in direct opposition to Scriptures quoting Christ, John and Paul
No, it is in direct opposition to your gnostic interpretation of the Scriptures. And you don't have authority to determine for the Church either the canon or the interpretation of Scripture.
-A8
Indeed, God the Father has revealed Himself in several ways - in Jesus Christ first by whom for for whom all that is "is" (Col 1) - in the indwelling Spirit - in the Scriptures - and in the Creation (Psalms 19, Romans 1:20).
To take one piece of the fourth revelation and elevate it on par with the first revelation makes no sense to me.
We run into this phenomenon of assuming a greater knowledge domain from a smaller observer vantage point all the time on science threads where the correspondent insists that randomness exists and yet one cannot say that randomness exists in a system unless he knows what the system “is.”
My testimony is that God alone is Truth. Reality exists according to His will – His direct will or His permissive will. There is nothing else of which anything can be made but His will. He is the uncaused cause of "all that there is." (Genesis to Revelation)
In my epistemology, looking for Truth anywhere except in Him leads to error. Putting confidence in material things of any kind leads to error. Putting confidence in other men leads to error.
Thus my personal epistemology is as follows:
2. Theological knowledge, indirect revelation: I believe in a revelation experienced by another; i.e., Scripture is confirmed to me by the indwelling Spirit.
Caveat: Many Christians of good conscience are quite comfortable relying on the doctrines and traditions of faithful spiritual leaders, but I personally eschew the doctrines and traditions of all men (Mark 7:7) which includes all mortal interpretations of Scriptures, whether by the Pope, Calvin, Arminius, Billy Graham, Joseph Smith, or whomever. The mortal scribes (Paul, John, Peter, Daniel, Moses, Isaiah, David, etc.) do not fall in this category to me since the actual author is the Spirit Himself and He authenticates the Scriptures personally by His indwelling. Thus I make a hard distinction between the Living Word of God and mere musings — such as the geocentricity interpretations of the early church or any of my own similar musings.
3. Logical conclusion: I can prove the Pythagorean theorem is valid and true.
4. Evidence/Historical fact, uninterpreted: I have verifiable evidence Reagan was once President.
5. Sensory perception of something external to me: I see my dog is lying at my feet.
6. Personal memory: I recall I had breakfast this morning.
7. Prediction from scientific theory: I calculate there will be a partial solar eclipse this week.
8. Trust in a Mentor: I trust this particular person to always tell me the truth, therefore I know …
9. Internal emotional state: I feel I’m happy, or I have empathy, compassion or sympathy for you.
10. Evidence/Historical fact, interpreted: I conclude from the fossil evidence in the geologic record that …
11. Determined facts: I accept something as fact because of a consensus determination by others, positive (affirmation) or negative (veto); i.e., I trust that these fact finders collectively know what they are talking about.
12. Imaginings: I imagine how things ought to have been in the Schiavo case.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. – John 16:13
In my view, the differences between us usually boil down to either (a) a believer’s epistemology or (b) his emphasis within the revealed words of God – whether the emphasis is on a particular apostle, a particular gift of the Spirit, election or free will, etc.
I confess that I relate much more to the apostle John than to any other apostle - and to the church of Philadelphia than to any other church in Rev 2-3.
WRONG, imho.
All believers with The Indwelling Spirit have sufficient authority to test the spirits and discern as well as they are able BY HOLY SPIRIT'S AUTHORITY WITHIN THEM.
Is such flawless and 100% pure 100% of the time in this fallen world with varying degrees of individual maturity and experience in such an exercise, process, action, discernment?
Of course
NOT ANY MORE THAN are the judgments about the writings of the early church fathers.
NOT ANY MORE THAN are the judgments about TRADITION.
NOT ANY MORE THAN are judgments about human organizations and their hierarchical structures.
NOT ANY MORE THAN are judgments about THE PONTIFICATIONS of hierarchical structured leaders.
NOT ANY MORE THAN are the judgments about THE CUSTOMS of hierarchical structures, their leaders and followers.
NOT ANY MORE THAN are the judgments about THE BLESSINGS of hierarchical structures and their leaders on followers and/or others.
NOT ANY MORE THAN are the judgements about THE PUNISHMENTS, EXCOMMUNICATIONS ETC. of hierarchical structures and their leaders.
As the OLD TESTAMENT AND NEW TESTAMENT DISPLAY ABUNDANTLY, RELIGIOUS LEADERS of EVEN GOD ORDAINED AND ESTABLISHED ORGANIZATIONS are extremely prone to flawed operations of even God given instructions.
ADD IN HUMAN generated assummptions and constructions on reality; add in demonic doctrines . . . and the flaws become enormous.
SMALL WONDER God has OFTEN withdrawn HIS ANOINTING from virtually every human organization that has existed beyond a few months to a year or so.
HINT: WE ARE ALL FALLEN CREATURES STILL IN A FALLEN WORLD, STILL SEEING THROUGH THE GLASS DARKLY. Even the most anointed amongs us. AND, God has clearly set things up that ALL US FALLEN CRITTERS NEED ONE ANOTHER to see more clearly EVEN BY HIS SPIRIT . . . to NEED one another far more than most are prepared to accept, much less submit to.