Peter & Succession (Understanding the Church Today)

Ignatius Insight ^ | 2005 | Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

[Gamecock]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, why does one person's will respond and the other's doesn't?

Or why were you and I born in a nation where the Gospel is preached, and so many aren't?

[adiaireton8]

God the Father has revealed Himself to us in these four ways:

It appears that you are trying to get these "four ways" [in the particular order in which you list them] from Scripture. But that suggests that you think Scripture alone is our authority (because otherwise, you would seemingly not limit yourself to appealing to Scripture as a source of doctrine). In other words, although you claim not to affirm "Sola Scripture", you seem to be working under that very assumption.

-A8

[1000 silverlings]

Some are blind through God's will, but some have the truth, also throgh God's will. Faith is a gift from God, no one gets it on their own. (Ephesians 2:8)

Let's go back and look at Acts 7, verse 10.

6:10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

Acts 7 Verse 51-54

and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted ? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

As I said earlier, they could not resist the HS. The prophets brought them the truth, the Law brought them the truth, the Word brought them the truth, and Jesus brought them the truth. It was the Truth that the HS gave them by different messengers that they rejected and did so by killing the prophets and Jesus, as well as not keeping the Law, which is exactly the rest of Stephen's statement. .

[1000 silverlings]

sorry Acts 6:10

[1000 silverlings]

I submit that is because they received the Torah and Tanach with their sensory perception and minds through diligent albeit earthy efforts - instead of hearing God spiritually. In the language of the soul, their ruach is centered on their nephesh and not on their neshama

All of their "earthly efforts" to understand God's Word would come to nought. That's exactly why the most learned of men can dismiss it as fairy tales of some halfwitted wandering tribe. Simon Magus sought to buy the HS. You can't just become "spiritual" because you desire to. And of course, if God wants you to receive His Spirit and be elect, you aren't able to "resist" the actual Spirit either.

[Quix]

I THINK my postings on authority have been somewhat clear.

Regardless of any context one is in . . . the bottom line ends up . . . one is responsible to GOD AND GOD ALONE.

When we face God, it will not wash that we blame earthly authority for our failings.

And, if one really doubts that GOD'S WORD directly and via His Spirit are inadequate to be supreme, sufficient, efficacious . . . then I suggest that such doubts have nothing to do with reality or with proper Godly authority but instead come from the pit of hell.

[Quix]

I still sometimes wonder . . . will one of those forbidden bits of knowledge be . . . that on a million different earth's our counterparts made allllll the possible choices.

Would sure be a quality learning program for ruling and reigning with Him.

[Quix]

Dr Walter Martin used to assert that questions like:

COULD GOD CREATE SUCH A BIG ROCK HE COULDN'T MOVE IT

were NONSENSE questions.

A lot of the Calvinist perspective questions strike me that way.

[Quix]

Works for me.

[adiaireton8]

All I have asked is to be shown where in Scripture it teaches that Scripture alone is to be our authority. So far, you have failed to provide any Scriptures that show that Scripture alone should be our authority. The obvious conclusion is that you do not know of any verses that teach that Scripture alone is to be our authority. If you do not know of any verses that teach that Scripture alone is to be our authority concerning God, then by affirming 'sola scriptura' you are letting a mere "tradition of men" govern your thinking about God.

-A8

[Quix]

I still very much agree with your construction on reality.

Thanks.

[Quix]

NOTING the SCRIPTURAL

BOTH/AND

regarding FREE WILL AND PREDESTINATION

does not automatically force us to understand or know the whole of God's mind about anything . . . much less that sort of question.

Asking absurd questions is not likely to produce reasonable results about spiritual, intellectual, . . . a variety of matters . . . and least about the Mind of God.

[Quix]

I'd think Romanists would have great familiarity with accepting truth that was not vividly, specifically, concretely and repeatedly displayed overtly and brazenly in Scripture. Seems to me, that a great lot of the Roman edifice is built upon extrapoltation, inference, assumption and out-right doctrines of man or worse.

[adiaireton8]

So you admit that 'sola scriptura' is a mere "tradition of men", not found in Scripture?

-A8

[1000 silverlings]

Peter's words in Acts

Ac 11:17

Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ what was I, that I could withstand God?

Peter, now having the gift of the HS within him, Peter the Apostle, admits that he is nothing against God. Then how do lesser people do it?

[Quix]

No, I don't "admit" such at all.

It is a construct.

It is not explicitly stated overtly and brazenly, specifically in Scripture.

The essence of the construct is in Scripture, as I've outlined above.

imho, there's tons more evidence for some flavor of Scripture alone (with Holy Spirit the Author) as our script, manual, superior authority . . . than there is for a long list of

extrapolated, inferred, created-out-of-whole-cloth presumptions, assumptions, TRADITIONS and doctrines of man or worse in the Romanist model.

Of course, I really don't expect folks wedded to the notion of safety, security, comfort etc. in a man-made edifice of such lengthy traditions . . . to see such facts short of a miraculous intervention of Holy Spirit . . . and, He is rather loathe to force things on people, typically. They have to seek God's face for most revelations of a life changing nature, in my experience.

[Quix]

what was I, that I could withstand God?

= = = =

I do construe Peter's "could" in that sentence as involving a degree of choice. He was NOT ABOUT TO withstand God so obviously communicating so forcefully to him.

I don't think "could" in that sentence is 100% and only about capacity.

[1000 silverlings]

So you think then that Peter, in other circumstances, would go about purposely defying God? In what things do you suppose?

[Quix]

No, I don't think, at that point in Peter's spiritual trek, that he would go about deliberately going against God in any circumstances. I just construe it that in that sentence, he was not talking about a 100% and only CAPACITY on that score. I believe he was saying something like a wife might say to a husband after the husband risked his life, almost died saving her and their only son--that she could never imagine loving him less than wholesale and forever faithfully. It's not that she would no longer have any will in the matter . . . it's that said will would be freely but completely invested in one direction very faithfully and securely.

Certainly Holy Spirit has a hand in getting any believer to that point . . . The biggest part, I think.

[1000 silverlings]

Don't you think it shows great understanding as well as humility on Peter's part? He's come a long way at this point.