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To: William Terrell
Where the subject touches the relation with man to God, and it isn't found in the scriptures, it is false doctrine

This is your personal opinion. It may be shared by many, but it is not what the scripture and the Church teaches.

Teaching authority of the Catholic church are not found in the scriptures, only by scripture

Not in only by? What is that supposed to mean? I showed you the verses that describe the teaching authority ogf the church in the strongest of terms. It is also what the Church actually did, as we see in Acts.

By scripture alone is implied throughout the Bible

I'd like chapter and verse, please. I could tell you how prayer to saints is "implied". Both are interpretations, -- but mine is backed by the apostolic authority of the Church. Yours is a personal interpretation, warned against in the scripture.

The men who define policy therein are separated from Apostleship by many layers of self-serving and corruptible men.

Some are and were corrupt, and some were homosexual. Others were canonized as saints and died for our faith. The apostolic succession, however, is described in the scripture and the Church as a whole cannot err, on the promise of Christ, also contained in the scripture.

There is no person in the Catholic church in the time extra-scriptual doctrine was devised that was touched by Jesus.

Jesus primised us His body forever present in the Eucharist. This is another scriptural truth you choose to ignore.

where is the doctrine, taught by Jesus, expounded by Peter to the Israelites and by Paul to the non-Israelites that prayer may be made to human beings living or dead

The communion of saints filled with martyrs in post-scriptural period and successors of Peter explained the meaning and drew the parameters of the cultus of saints. None of that contradicts the scripture. The Church was doing her job. She always does.

187 posted on 10/25/2006 6:32:10 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
It may be shared by many, but it is not what the scripture and the Church teaches.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

How do we know that men like these were not on or within the group that makes church doctrine not found in the scriptures? And, if so, how valid does that make their doctrine?

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It's my understanding that church administrators don't write scripture. They write policy derived from scripture, not self-serving interpretations to support prior creation of policy.

This is the only way to assure departure hasn't occurred, as when the council has been composed of one or more of the above.

None of the scripture cited for validation of certain practices, I have never took it to mean such, reading it in or out of context. The relevance seems to be very labored, as if someone was searching for some sort of support.

I don't find any scriptural support for praying to any human being, living or dead, regardless of his travels in life.

Teaching authority of the Catholic church are not found in the scriptures, only by scripture

The is no authority of the Catholic church to teach practices not found in the scriptures, only those practices based on the scriptures, and not labored interpretations of the scriptures.

I'd like chapter and verse, please.

And I'd like chapter and verse, please, for praying to a human being. Above I gave you two reasons for scripture alone, one reached by reason (as in Paul "reasoning with the Jews in the temple") and one stating outright.

the Church as a whole cannot err

But the men who run it do. And when they do, the church errs. What you say seems meaningless.

Jesus primised us His body forever present in the Eucharist. This is another scriptural truth you choose to ignore.

Jesus is present when any two or more is gathered in His name. That makes anyone capable of inspiration. The bread and wine is a symbol, just taking it does not automatically insure Jesus' spirit.

1Cr 11:27 ¶ Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.

1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

I take this to mean that any group leavened by those traits of character mentioned above will produce no sound doctrine. And this is always the problem with mere men departing from scripture.

189 posted on 10/25/2006 10:05:15 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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