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To: FJ290; Quix
The notion of tongues is obscure in the Scriptures.

We know for a fact that the Spirit imparts the gift.

We know that it manifested itself in Peter as an ability to be understood by many people of different languages simultaneously.

We know that it manifested itself to Paul as Christians who spoke in languages that required interpretation by other members of the congregation.

But the opposite of the Petrine phenomenon - a person speaking so that no one present could understand (whereas when Peter spoke in tongues everyone present understood) - isn't Scripturally attested.

The Pentecostal phenomenon of tongues seems to be the opposite of Peter's and significantly different from the phenomenon described by Paul.

81 posted on 10/12/2006 2:15:50 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
The Pentecostal phenomenon of tongues seems to be the opposite of Peter's and significantly different from the phenomenon described by Paul.

Agreed!

83 posted on 10/12/2006 2:54:07 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: wideawake
The notion of tongues is obscure in the Scriptures.

I can think of doctrines based on one or 2-3 Scriptures much more fiercely defended by more of Christendom than the many following verses attest to tongues about. I don't call ____ verses OBSCURE! LOL.

[1] Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

[2] Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

WELL REPORTED in modern era literature though not super frequent or common.

[3]Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

[4]Acts 2:11
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Folks speaking languages which they have not learned by Holy Spirit is also reported in the modern literature though infrequently.

[5]Acts 10:46
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

[6]Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Very commonly reported in the literature from all around the world.

[7] 1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

AMPLILFIED: 10To another the working of miracles, to another prophetic insight ([b]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose); to another the ability to discern and distinguish between [the utterances of true] spirits [and false ones], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, to another the ability to interpret [such] tongues.

[8] 1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Guess if we're going to remove tongues due to the supposed obscurity of it's mention, we'd best get rid of teachers, too.

[ 9] 1 Corinthians 12:30
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

[10] 1 Corinthians 13:1
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

THE MESSAGE: 1 If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.

AMPLIFIED: 1IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such [a]as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

[11] 1 Corinthians 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 1 Corinthians 13:7-9 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter) [12] 1 Corinthians 14:5
I would that you all spake with tongues but rather that you prophesied: for greater is he that prophesies than he that speakes with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Oh, dear, another verse that has to be rationalized away as not applying to those Paul was writing to-- THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH. Though I suppose some arrogant idiot groups would be proud to consider themselves NOT NEW TESTAMENT! Sadly.

[13] 1 Corinthians 14:6
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

[14] 1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

Oh, dear--"all" can't possibly include all New Testament Believers! Oh, dear, Then it would include me. Oh, dear, then I'd have to alter my belief's and practices! NO WAY! God must be wrong. /satire

[15] 1 Corinthians 14:21
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, says the Lord.

[16] 1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serves not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

[17]1 Corinthians 14:23
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

[18] 1 Corinthians 14:39
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

OH DEAR! Another verse we'd better pretend applied only to the church around the corner from Paul's house or prison. Otherwise, I'll have to change my says and my ways. Can't do that. Too uncomfortable. Too humbling. Too New Testament Christian--toooooo close to God. Can't have that. Denial. That's the answer. Denial. /satire.

18 verses related to tongues. Doesn't remotely sound OBSCURE, to me. Clearly, obscure is in the eye, or not, of the beholder.

The Pentecostal phenomenon of tongues seems to be the opposite of Peter's and significantly different from the phenomenon described by Paul.

Sounds like someone's mere argument

instead of someone's experience.

Modern era tongues and other Pentecostal experiences and practices have encompassed all the Scriptural examples. Ignorance of the literature doesn't hinder Holy Spirit where there are willing hearts seeking ALL God has to offer and willing to lay aside sufficient pride to experience it and put God first.

87 posted on 10/12/2006 3:14:50 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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