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To: Bainbridge
Bainbridge, I get your point and I appreciate it.

I felt a sinking in my stomach when I saw that picture of good John Paul kissing the Koran. If it had been me, I wouldn't have done it; and if I'd been there, I swear I would have yelled, "Stop! Don't do it!"

Nevertheless, this was a guy who kissed every gift he was ever given: guitars, sombreros, soccer team jerseys, CD's, flags, calendars and medals. He kissed the ground when he got off an airplane; he kissed the man he forgave--- the man who tried to murder him.

For him it meant courtesy, and acknowledgement to fellow men as gift-givers, and to God who is all-bounteous.

John Paul the Great he was not an infallible diplomat. But, goshdarn it, as a man, Karol Wojtyla was a mensch.

30 posted on 10/14/2006 2:40:00 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" - Jesus Christ Our Lord)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank you for your honest words.
I am sure that the man who was very admirable in so many ways did not mean to confuse or mislead. I do think that your take on it is fair.

I do not retract anything that I have said here.
I am taking a break as I object to the fact that I was wrongly chastised; I find the "everybody play nice" bunk of a piece with liberalism and as this is supposed to be a philosophically conservative place, one that does not abide such nonsense, I am sorry to see that attitude taken.


32 posted on 10/14/2006 2:48:02 PM PDT by Bainbridge
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To: Mrs. Don-o; sitetest; BlackElk; sandyeggo
As John Henry Cardinal Newman said:

"Our duty is -- not indeed to mix up Christ's Vicar with this or that party of men, because he in his high station is above all parties -- but to look at his formal deeds, and to follow him whither he goeth, and never to desert him, however we may be tried, but to defend him at all hazards, and against all comers, as a son would a father, and as a wife a husband, knowing that his cause is the cause of God. And so, as regards his successors, if we live to see them; it is our duty to give them in like manner our dutiful allegiance and our unfeigned service, and to follow them also whithersoever they go, having that same confidence that each in his turn and in his own day will do God's work and will, which we have felt in their predecessors, now taken away to their eternal reward."

*Well, that used to be Tradition. But, we modern Christians have completed our studies in another school. We have completed our studies in the school of politics and we treat Popes no differently than political dopes.

The worst thing about it is so many are so proud they have denounced the Pope publicly

36 posted on 10/16/2006 3:56:25 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Bainbridge; FJ290; red irish; sitetest; BlackElk; sandyeggo; NYer
Let's read an opinion about the Pope kissing the Korna from the Chaldean Patriarch of Irag and see whether or not laymen could possibly err re the matter

The Chaldean Patriarch of Iraq, Raphael I Bidawid is the spiritual guide of the majority of Iraq's Christians -- who still celebrate their liturgy in Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus. Of the 20 million Iraqi citizens, some one million are Christians. Of these, 80% are Catholics belonging to either the Chaldean or Latin Rites. This was reported by Raphael I Bidawid, Patriarch of the Chaldeans in an interview with the FIDES News Service, as follows:

“On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shiite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni President of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope’s love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim. At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book the Koran presented to him by the delegation and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam.”

* I wonder if that information will change any hearts.

40 posted on 10/16/2006 9:02:52 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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