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To: B Knotts
I've never understood what the implications of Limbo are for Jews. An orthodox Jew who is observant and God-fearing his whole life would never be baptized. Would this Jewish person also go to Limbo? If not, why not?
8 posted on 10/04/2006 7:09:28 AM PDT by utahagen
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To: utahagen

Makes sense to me as a possibility. We know that the Church believes that non-Christians can theoretically be saved through Christ, even if they don't know his Name in this life. Perhaps limbo could be how it works.

I suppose the argument against limbo is that God will do what He will, and the particular mechanics of how He does it are not something we need to know. But that doesn't strike me as a traditionally Catholic approach.


12 posted on 10/04/2006 7:13:56 AM PDT by B Knotts (Newt '08!)
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To: utahagen
Limbo is the place for those who die unbaptized before the age of reason/consent, not for adults. It is an answer to the dilemna of where those souls go who have not committed any personal sin, but still have the stain of original sin.

In limbo souls would exist in a state of perfect natural happiness, but not possess the Beautific Vision, or supernatural happiness that souls in heaven have.

13 posted on 10/04/2006 7:18:52 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: utahagen
The Bible twice uses the phrase "the bosom of Abraham," which corresponds somewhat to the notion of limbo: a place of blessedness while awaiting the fullness of salvation.

The Eastern church (both Catholic and Orthodox) has wonderful icons showing the resurrected Christ grabbing Adam, Eve, Moses, David and all the great and God-loving Jews and hauling them into heaven. Beautiful!

14 posted on 10/04/2006 7:20:16 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Baruch ata Adonai, Eloheinu Melech ha'olan....")
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To: utahagen; B Knotts
An orthodox Jew who is observant and God-fearing his whole life would never be baptized. Would this Jewish person also go to Limbo? If not, why not?

An excellent question that also applies to Buddhists, Muslims, etc. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church ......


The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.


This paragraph tells us that Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whome the Gospel has been proclaimed and whohave had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. It says that while the Church does not know of any other way than Baptism to get to Heaven, she does recognize that God is not bound by His sacraments and may have some other way of saving those who were never baptized. Paragraph 1260 of the Catechism elaborates on this:


"Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.


We can't say with certainty who is saved and who isn't; only God know that, and we are more than happy to leave such matters in His merciful hands.


29 posted on 10/04/2006 8:00:11 AM PDT by NYer ("It is easier for the earth to exist without sun than without the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.” PPio)
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To: utahagen
CCC 839

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, 326 "the first to hear the Word of God." 327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ", 328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." 329

32 posted on 10/04/2006 8:07:34 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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