But what about Doritos?
Posted on 10/04/2006 6:41:15 AM PDT by NYer
There are very few doctrines that are defined as being infallible. And if memory serves me, the only ones that are really contended by non-Catholic Christians are the Assumption, the Immaculate Conception and, to a lesser extent, Transubstantiation and Purgatory.
I hope they promote all those babies into heaven and not just cut them loose in space!
Okay, here's more than one. I was specifically referring to Saint Paul in 1 Cor
1 Cor 3:10-15
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
Malachi 3:1-3:
1: "Behold, I send my messenger to prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts. 2: But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? "For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap; 3: he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
Mt. 12:31-36: 31: Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32: And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. 33: "Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree bad, and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. 34: You brood of vipers! how can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35: The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. 36: I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter.
2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body.
Revelation 20:12-13 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.
1 Peter 1:15-1715 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; 16 since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy." 17 And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile.
First of all the original question I was responding to was about the unbaptized. Secondly, since the CCC is not infallible, if it appears to contradict infallible teaching of the Church,(which by definition is true for all time) like the quote above, guess which one is wrong?
In other words the CCC cannot be saying what you think it does or it is teaching error, (which is not impossible).
What's fide?
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
Deu 13:1 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,' Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Deu 13:4 "You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him. Deu 13:5 "But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you.
It's not so much "scripture only" as "whatever is said cannot contradict scripture".
Phi 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
Here, the bretheren are instructed to work out there own salvation apart from their Bishop.
Correct, but this one is. Pope Eugene IV was just formally restating the constant teaching of the Church.
None of these mention anything about what the Catholic church calls purgatory. Sorry.
What Paul was talking about when he referred to Scripture was the same as what Jesus referred to, and that is the OLD TESTAMENT.
I think the "before death" phrase is really the "out" everyone is looking for to be able to have hope for the soul of someone who dies unbaptized. In my opinion, (not any official Church opinion)I'd like to believe that the merciful, loving and just God we know and love would not allow a soul who sincerely desires to know and love Him die without the grace of baptism through no fault of their own, even if at the point of death God had to infuse the soul with the faith and send St. Peter himself down from heaven to baptize that person.
Assuming you're correct, so? You asked, I told you...
1 Timothy 3:14-15
14Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
2 Thes 2:14-16
14He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[a] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
16May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope,
shifting colors
Maybe it's your understanding of purgatory.
In 2 Peter 3:16, Peter referred to Paul's writing as scripture. It is the same word that Paul used in 2 Timothy when referring to scripture.
Assuming I'M CORRECT? That is the answer, or do you actually think you can define Christian beliefs based solely on the Old Testament?
Well, please help me with my understanding. If someone died in a non-saved state, can that state be changed while they are in purgatory?
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