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To: redgolum
Thanks for the informative response. I will check Prof. Runciman out at the Library.

Sort of on the same subject, and relative to Pope Benedict's speech. I recently read the following (courtesy of American Spectator piece) regarding Manuel II Paleologus.

"He [Manuel II] was, foremost, the antepenultimate emperor of the Byzantine Empire, the successor to the Roman Empire. At the time of his reign (1391-1425) the Muslim Turks had their sights set on the empire's capital of Constantinople. In 1399, Manuel traveled to England, France, the seat of the Holy Roman Empire, and Aragon seeking assistance from the various monarchs and courts. His visit was a complete bust. The split between the Greek Orthodox and Roman churches proved too wide. Unless the Greeks agreed to join the Roman Church there would be no troops, no assistance, and the Greeks were not about to surrender their autonomy to Rome, not even to save the empire, their religion and their lives."

If this is true, how significant do you think it was in terms of any sort of realignment of powers, and how would you extrapolate to current events?

34 posted on 09/26/2006 4:42:47 PM PDT by AlbionGirl (Salvation is free, ... but discipleship will cost you your life.-- Dietrich Bonhoeffer)
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To: AlbionGirl
Another great set of books are the books by Harold Lamb. "Iron Men and Saints" and "The Flame of Islam". Older books, but very readable. Not as deep, but they are more of a story than the minute details.

The final act of the Eastern Empire was one were the Emperor was trying to draw the Western powers to his aid, but retain his autonomy. His fear was that the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church prelates would never reconcile, and at the time he was right. To many attempts at reconciliation had been tried and failed. Also, reconciliation would mean that the Byzantine empire would have to recognize the legitimacy of the Holy Roman Empire (basically the German and Spanish states), which for a number of political and theological reasons he couldn't.

That, coupled with the scandal of two Popes in the West, pretty much guaranteed that no help would come. Buy Paleologus's mission did have one great result. It opened the way for more exiles to flee to the West, which helped bring the Renaissance.

As to what it means for today, look to Russia and the new Russian Empire (for that is what it is). Russia was for centuries after the fall of Constantinople seen as the last bastion of the Eastern Church. The symbols (double headed eagle, St. Andrew's cross, etc) are all tied with the Eastern Empire. There was, and is, a big feeling that the West abandoned the East to her fate. Russia, and to some extant Greece, have long had the goal of retaking Constantinople and restoring the Hagia Sophia.

To counteract this, Britain and France in the past, and the US in the present, have allied themselves with what is now Turkey. So we have the specter of Christian states (Protestant England, Catholic France, and polyglot US) joining together with a muslim power against an Orthodox state (as Russia is once again trying to be). That is partially why, even after the Cold War, Russia views us as opponents.
36 posted on 09/26/2006 6:21:58 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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