Posted on 09/23/2006 5:59:13 PM PDT by hiho hiho
Rick Warren's "Purpose-Driven" church model is being blamed in a developing split in one of the Southern Baptist Convention's most prominent churches.
Two weeks ago the Wall Street Journal carried a front-page story saying Warren's church-growth methods--which include replacing hymns, choirs and pews with rock-style praise bands and laid-back sermons--were dividing the country's 50 million evangelicals.
Baptist Press defended Warren, a Southern Baptist, by implying the Journal story made a mountain out of a molehill.
"The 2,200-word story cites four congregations where upheaval occurred from a move toward the principles espoused by Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., and author of the best-seller Purpose-Driven Life," wrote a BP staff writer. "The story, however, does not relay any estimates of the extent of problems nationwide stemming from Warren's Purpose-Driven methods."
But a Web site nearing 60,000 visitors criticizes several changes at the 30,000-member Bellevue Baptist Church near Memphis, Tenn., since last year's retirement and subsequent death of its legendary pastor, Adrian Rogers.
One of the largest churches in the Mid-South, Bellevue has been led by just four pastors in the last 79 years: R.G. Lee, 1927-1960; Ramsey Pollard, 1960-72; Rogers, 1972-2005; and since last September, Steve Gaines, former pastor of First Baptist Church in Gardendale, Ala.
Gaines' honeymoon is apparently over for some long-time church members, who criticize what they view as excessive salaries, moving away from congregational leadership toward an elder-led system and unpopular staff changes, including forcing out and replacing a long-term music director.
They also criticize Gaines' leadership style, claiming he is arrogant, uses intimidation and pressed forward with changes instead of giving the church time to grieve following their beloved emeritus pastor's death from cancer in November 2005.
Gaines denied in the Memphis Commercial-Appeal the church is departing from its Southern Baptist roots or is part of the church-growth movement, but acknowledged that some had criticized the blending of contemporary and traditional church music in worship.
The "Saving Bellevue" Web site, however, includes articles seeking assurances the new pastor isn't trying to move the church toward "Warrenism" and quotations from Warren's "Ministry Toolbox" playbook on transitioning a traditional church to a Purpose-Driven model.
"Not only do we need to take a stand for our church, but we--EVERY BLOOD BOUGHT CHRISTIAN--needs to take a stand against this Rick Warren Revolution!" wrote one commenter in a blog section.
"I have been a member of Bellevue since 1952, when I was 17 years old," wrote another. "I have been in the choir since 1960. Every time my mail comes I look for the letter telling me that I am no longer needed in the choir, that I am too old. I do not clap and stomp. I do not wave my hands."
Other grievances include a story about Gaines sending staff to discourage a particular long-time church member from saying "Amen," during worship services. One version of the story says Gaines issued the order after hearing in a dream the man was under demonic influence and needed to be silenced before the next Sunday. Gaines denies the dream ever happened, claiming the "Amens" were a distraction and hurting his concentration.
Other rumors are that Gaines negotiated a salary twice the size of his predecessor, one figure tossed around was $500,000. Gaines and others said the church doesn't disclose salaries, but his isn't nearly that high. Questions about hiring, firing and staff compensation allegedly went unanswered, and church members were refused copies of the church bylaws.
One former deacon and long-time member gave an on-line interview describing how, after asking questions about compensation and other administrative matters, four uninvited visitors, including Gaines, came to his home in a gated community, climbing over a fence marked with a no-trespassing sign.
The four men said the visit was an attempt to seek reconciliation, but the homeowner, Mark Sharpe, who wasn't at home when it occurred, viewed it as intimidation.
He said Gaines called him after 11:00 one evening and told him he was "Hezbollah" and personally sending people to hell by his actions.
"I informed him that I didn't have the power to send anyone to hell," Sharpe said. "I have to admit, I was shaken by the words I heard my pastor speak to me. I was shaken to the bone but reminded that these were not the actions of a pastor."
Gaines said the Web site contains "insinuations and downright falsifications," and he believes it is creating confusion in the church.
The Sept. 5 Wall Street Journal story detailed criticisms of "Purpose-Driven" attempts to attract non-believers with lively worship services, practical sermons and chances to volunteer. Critics question the use of secular marketing methods and simplistic Bible study.
Among churches split after adopting Warren's techniques, the story said, is Valley View Christian Church in Dallas, the former church of failed Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers.
Ron Key, the church's senior minister, was demoted and later fired for criticizing the "Madison Avenue" approach advocated by Warren. Key and about 200 other members began worshipping in a hotel and later a college gym. Miers reportedly attends when she is in town.
Key's replacement at Valley View was Barry McCarty, longtime parliamentarian for the Southern Baptist Convention.
"Our church used the five purposes from the Purpose-Drive Life as the outline for our strategic plan, because they are the purposes for the church that are revealed in Scripture," McCarty told Baptist Press. "It ought to be noted that Rick Warren did not invent these five purposes" [worship, fellowship, discipleship, ministry and evangelism]. "He simply popularized them."
"Rick got these five purposes from the Bible," McCarty said. "Rick's heart is the same place that our hearts are: We want to do what God has assigned us to do as individuals and as a church."
Oh yeah, a lot of Conservative/Christians shop at WallyWorld, and buy Ff--150, 250s, RAM Heavy Duties, etc/.
I think churches that do well are the ones that offer 2 or more services on Sunday, with one being traditional and one being more contemporary to appeal to younger people.
I see nothing wrong with non-traditional music and more instruments. I'm 41 and enjoy a contemporary service more than the traditional Baptist hymns and sermon.
I also recognize when the word is "watered down" and made politically correct and simply will not attend a church that does that in an attempt not to offend any potential member$.
Purpose-Driven=Purpose-Drivel. Haven't you noticed how everything is being dumbed down? Rock music in worship services is inappropriate and the coarseness of our society has invaded the church. This is pure "unchurch". Cultural relevance is hyped up as being the ultimate in evangelism. Cultural relevance should not include mimicking the culture's musical idioms. Cultural relevance should equip believers to resist the culture - be counter-cultural. But instead they have wedded themselves to the culture.
Forget leaning on a title.
I just left CALVARY BIBLE Church.
It's a RICK WARREN church now.
People have not “cut and run”. They have left wishy washy, warm & fuzzy, ear tickling false teaching in search of a church that is Biblically based. And even if they remain, they will be pushed out the door as “resisters”. It isn’t a matter of being “right”, but of receiving Biblically sound teaching.
As for "....touch not my anointed and do my Prophets no harm......" , this is used by false teachers to keep people under control & make themselves untouchable. Jim Jones & David Koresh used that passage too.
And I think everything must line up with the Word of God. So if you take a Bible (not “The Message” which Warren uses extensively to make his points) but an actual translation, does Warren’s method line up? Does it really?
I count 32 references to me (I, I've, me, my, I'm, I'd), vs 14 references to Jesus or God (Jesus, He, Him, "good man")
He is correct, the story by Suzanne Sataline in the Wall Street Journal came nowhere near telling how many dozens OTHER churches have split because of the Warren Doctrine. She only cited four churches, but many of us are aware of many more that were not used in the article. There are so many that if she had mentioned all of them, no one would have believed her.
And in all fairness, the Baptist Press should have fully disclosed that they are biased because Warren is raking in millions of dollars for their publication house, Zondervan.
Dostoevsky's "Idiot" says "beauty will save the world". I thought about that. God is a God of Beauty. What is coming from the mouths of our modern musicians in church these days is not so beautiful.
I heard a pastor tell his congregation to "get over it", when some started to complain about the modern contemporary beat for worship and the noise. Even the video clips shown in worship services have rock music. It's in your face. Now, what is bothersome to me is these people don't mind pushing their rock style 'worship' music down peoples' throats, calling it "worship" and offending many. How "christian" and "charitable" is this? Add to this the sheer loudness of it which is rather disconcerting. The whole scene is offensive and those who push it are very uncharitable. I don't think any church can be saved from this - it's rampant. But it draws people in. Yes, it does. But what do they come to? Does it inspire Godly living? Will it prepare them to live in a world that hates Christ? The world doesn't mind hearing rock style music sung with evangelical speak - it knows its source. The world is familiar with it. Where is beauty? Where is the inspired creativity that only God can give? I'll admit, I love classical music; they call it classical for a reason - the songs 'composed' for worship today will not be remembered tomorrow. They have the life span of milk and most are gaudy and rather giddy. Can anyone in this culture compose something of beauty? I seriously doubt it. I hear this music all the time in my church and just sigh in exasperation. Even church vocalists style their voices after rock stars. Their coarse, scratchy, guttural utterances, I suppose mean they're more 'spiritual'. I've heard some say that trained vocalists aren't so spiritual - well niether are untrained vocalists necessarily so spiritual. But it is pleasant to hear the trained voice. Again, where's the beauty?
Just my $0.02
Your post is quite perceptive. Have you read the earlier book by Rick Warren, "The Purpose Driven Church"? The chapter devoted to "Music" is what really tipped me off about this movement being in a wrong spirit. He tells pastors that if people don't like the music, they should be told to go elsewhere. These days, there are no other churches where these people can go! The attitude of "Take it or leave it!" is neither loving nor charitable, regardless of music tastes (or the lack of it).
Several years ago a neighbor and I started a garden that bordered both our properties (no fence). We planted all sorts of plants and with proper weeding and watering it was really looking good. Unfortunately my neighbor moved and the new neighbors (as nice as they may be) have no interest in the garden. Their side has gone unwatered and unweeded for over a year now. I have come to the realization that it is now almost impossible to control the weeds that are now taking over my part of the garden.
Weeds are easy to grow, gardens are not.
I don't have a problem with the way people worship.
If they prefer hymnals, that's fine. If they prefer the KJV, that's fine. If the women prefer putting their hair up in buns, that's fine.
I just get a little fed up with the people who believe that an 16th century hymnals on an organ are more righteous than a modern song with drums and guitars.
"That church has become a joke"
That's entertainment...which is what Christians are being asked to settle for instead of suffering for the Gospel's sake. Jesus said the world will hate His followers because they hated Him. I don't hear that mentioned in Warren and the other church growthers positively Polyanna advertising.
MY FEET ARE ON THE ROCK
By Larry Norman
My feet are on the rock, my name is on the roll
But moving and a-grooving does not satisfy my soul.
So when I'm down, I go off on my own
When I feel moved I dance before the throne
(just like David).
Some people think I'm strange,
Yeh they think I'm some kind of fool
You know they shake their heads in church
And they laugh at me in school
But I believe Someone rolled away that stone
(and I am not alone)
So when I feel the need, I dance before the throne.
Take it easy, nice and slow.
Feel His presence, don't you know.
If He says follow, I will go
I feel like dancing 'cause he saved my soul.
Goliath had a sword, David had a stone
I have got the Lord and I am not alone,
So if you knock me down
Brother I will not fight you back
You know God loves all his children
Red white yellow brown and black.
My feet are on the rock, my name is on the roll
But moving and a-grooving does not satisfy my soul
(Don't wanna do the stroll)
When I'm down, I go off on my own
(and I am not alone)
When I feel moved, I dance before the throne.
Back off, Jimmy, It's not wrong -
This kind of music comes from the church, not from the devil.
Welcome to the club.
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