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Change Dividing Southern Baptist Mega-Church
Ethics Daily ^
| September 22, 2006
| Bob Allen
Posted on 09/23/2006 5:59:13 PM PDT by hiho hiho
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To: hiho hiho
Mega-churches and authors reporting what the Lord actually said in His Word are bastions for Conservative/Christians and--DUH!!!!! must be attacked by the socialist leftie loony-tunes to get their lady as president in 2008!
Oh yeah, a lot of Conservative/Christians shop at WallyWorld, and buy Ff--150, 250s, RAM Heavy Duties, etc/.
Comment #22 Removed by Moderator
To: Mr. Brightside
I think churches that do well are the ones that offer 2 or more services on Sunday, with one being traditional and one being more contemporary to appeal to younger people.
I see nothing wrong with non-traditional music and more instruments. I'm 41 and enjoy a contemporary service more than the traditional Baptist hymns and sermon.
I also recognize when the word is "watered down" and made politically correct and simply will not attend a church that does that in an attempt not to offend any potential member$.
23
posted on
09/24/2006 6:02:03 AM PDT
by
Muzzle_em
(taglines are for sissies)
To: SoldiersPrayingMom
Purpose-Driven=Purpose-Drivel. Haven't you noticed how everything is being dumbed down? Rock music in worship services is inappropriate and the coarseness of our society has invaded the church. This is pure "unchurch". Cultural relevance is hyped up as being the ultimate in evangelism. Cultural relevance should not include mimicking the culture's musical idioms. Cultural relevance should equip believers to resist the culture - be counter-cultural. But instead they have wedded themselves to the culture.
Comment #25 Removed by Moderator
To: The Spirit Of Allegiance
Forget leaning on a title.
I just left CALVARY BIBLE Church.
It's a RICK WARREN church now.
26
posted on
09/24/2006 7:34:03 AM PDT
by
nmh
(Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
To: SoldiersPrayingMom
Frankly I firmly believe your tongue lashing should be directed to yourself. In NO WAY SHAPE or FORM is Rick WARREN and HIS teachings BIBLICAL or CORRECT!
I am ashamed of YOU since you lack the ability to see clearly. Perhaps some day soon the veil from your eyes will be removed and you too will see just how UNBiblical and divisive this Purpose Driven Church teachings are.
BTW, you may take all kinds of Bible verses out of context however I stand on this:
John.7:24
[24] Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
That's correct! You are to make a RIGHTEOUS judgment or a CORRECT judgment not based on appearances.
2Thes.2:3
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Why do I "cut and run"?
Because I have a wonderful daughter and I don't want her tainted with unBiblical nonsense. I also see it's a growing cancer amongst churches. It also gives me a clearer understanding of this verse:
2Tim.4:3
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
The time has come. Rick Warrenism is just another form of UNSOUND doctrine for itching ears that do NOT know Biblical doctrine. Rick Warren makes em feel good and he's quite the entertainer. Quite a few of us are NOT fooled by his merchandising efforts. Nah, we've been around too long and know and love the Lord. We know the teachings of GOD.
"Yes, this is a rebuke and meant, as speaking the truth in love and I sincerely hope it is taken that way."
"THINK about it and then PRAY about it!! "
I offer you, you're own advice. Before it's too late ... remove yourself from unBiblical teachings and giving it creditability. People are impressed with "numbers". No doubt about it. Don't add to Rick Warren "numbers" to boost his credibility. It's a funny thing about "numbers" ... perhaps this will wake you up ...
Matt.7:14
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
So much for Rick Warren's "numbers". He is a heretic and he encourages more apostate churches.
." Eph 6:13. The Bible also cautions us, "....touch not my anointed and do my Prophets no harm......" I Chronicles 16: 21 and 22 and again in Ps. 105: 11-15. Rick Warren is NO prophet of God! You see, you ASSUME he is. He is NOT an ambassador nor an imitator of Christ as he should be. YOU read THAT into these verses. You have been fooled. As you may know there are other verses in the Bible that better characterize this kind of charlatan what to do and that IS what we are doing. We want NO PARTS of this heresy.
27
posted on
09/24/2006 7:54:15 AM PDT
by
nmh
(Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
To: nmh
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal!
To: SoldiersPrayingMom
Its the lost of the world that Im most concerned about. If they follow this PDL fad foolishness, they will remain lost. The Bible has warned us that false teaching would come. It has & many refuse to see it for what it is. The church has embraced the book of a man over the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is what I am most ashamed of.
People have not cut and run. They have left wishy washy, warm & fuzzy, ear tickling false teaching in search of a church that is Biblically based. And even if they remain, they will be pushed out the door as resisters. It isnt a matter of being right, but of receiving Biblically sound teaching.
As for "....touch not my anointed and do my Prophets no harm......" , this is used by false teachers to keep people under control & make themselves untouchable. Jim Jones & David Koresh used that passage too.
And I think everything must line up with the Word of God. So if you take a Bible (not The Message which Warren uses extensively to make his points) but an actual translation, does Warrens method line up? Does it really?
29
posted on
09/24/2006 9:15:11 AM PDT
by
Sue Perkick
(The true gospel is a call to self-denial. It is not a call to self-fulfillment..John MacArthur)
To: fluffy tiger
I count 32 references to me (I, I've, me, my, I'm, I'd), vs 14 references to Jesus or God (Jesus, He, Him, "good man")
WHY SHOULD THE DEVIL HAVE ALL THE GOOD MUSIC
by Larry Norman
I want the people to know that he saved my soul
But I still like to listen to the radio.
They say rock 'n' roll is wrong, we'll give you one more chance.
I say I feel so good I gotta get up and dance.
I know what's right, I know what's wrong, I don't confuse it.
All I'm really trying to say
Is why should the devil have all the good music?
I feel good every day
'Cause Jesus is the rock and he rolled my blues away.
They say to cut my hair, they're driving me insane,
I grew it out long to make room for my brain.
But sometimes people don't understand,
What's a good boy doing in a rock 'n' roll band?
There's nothing wrong with playing blues licks,
But if you got a reason tell me to my face
Why should the devil have all the good music.
There's nothing wrong with what I play
'Cause Jesus is the rock and he rolled my blues away.
I ain't knocking the hymns,
Just give me a song that has a beat.
I ain't knocking the hymns,
Just give me a song that moves my feet.
I don't like none of those funeral marches
I ain't dead yet!
Jesus told the truth, Jesus showed the way
There's one more thing I'd like to say.
They nailed him to the cross, they laid him in the ground,
But they shoulda known you can't keep a good man down.
I feel good every day, I don't wanna lose it.
All I wanna, all I wanna know
Is why should the devil have all the good music.
I've been filled, I feel okay,
Jesus is the rock and he rolled my blues
Jesus is the rock and he rolled my blues
Jesus is the rock and he rolled my blues away.
To: hiho hiho
"The 2,200-word story cites four congregations where upheaval occurred from a move toward the principles espoused by Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., and author of the best-seller Purpose-Driven Life," wrote a BP staff writer. "The story, however, does not relay any estimates of the extent of problems nationwide stemming from Warren's Purpose-Driven methods." He is correct, the story by Suzanne Sataline in the Wall Street Journal came nowhere near telling how many dozens OTHER churches have split because of the Warren Doctrine. She only cited four churches, but many of us are aware of many more that were not used in the article. There are so many that if she had mentioned all of them, no one would have believed her.
And in all fairness, the Baptist Press should have fully disclosed that they are biased because Warren is raking in millions of dollars for their publication house, Zondervan.
31
posted on
09/24/2006 12:10:51 PM PDT
by
TommyDale
(Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
To: TommyDale
Dostoevsky's "Idiot" says "beauty will save the world". I thought about that. God is a God of Beauty. What is coming from the mouths of our modern musicians in church these days is not so beautiful.
I heard a pastor tell his congregation to "get over it", when some started to complain about the modern contemporary beat for worship and the noise. Even the video clips shown in worship services have rock music. It's in your face. Now, what is bothersome to me is these people don't mind pushing their rock style 'worship' music down peoples' throats, calling it "worship" and offending many. How "christian" and "charitable" is this? Add to this the sheer loudness of it which is rather disconcerting. The whole scene is offensive and those who push it are very uncharitable. I don't think any church can be saved from this - it's rampant. But it draws people in. Yes, it does. But what do they come to? Does it inspire Godly living? Will it prepare them to live in a world that hates Christ? The world doesn't mind hearing rock style music sung with evangelical speak - it knows its source. The world is familiar with it. Where is beauty? Where is the inspired creativity that only God can give? I'll admit, I love classical music; they call it classical for a reason - the songs 'composed' for worship today will not be remembered tomorrow. They have the life span of milk and most are gaudy and rather giddy. Can anyone in this culture compose something of beauty? I seriously doubt it. I hear this music all the time in my church and just sigh in exasperation. Even church vocalists style their voices after rock stars. Their coarse, scratchy, guttural utterances, I suppose mean they're more 'spiritual'. I've heard some say that trained vocalists aren't so spiritual - well niether are untrained vocalists necessarily so spiritual. But it is pleasant to hear the trained voice. Again, where's the beauty?
Just my $0.02
To: Gotterdammerung
Your post is quite perceptive. Have you read the earlier book by Rick Warren, "The Purpose Driven Church"? The chapter devoted to "Music" is what really tipped me off about this movement being in a wrong spirit. He tells pastors that if people don't like the music, they should be told to go elsewhere. These days, there are no other churches where these people can go! The attitude of "Take it or leave it!" is neither loving nor charitable, regardless of music tastes (or the lack of it).
33
posted on
09/24/2006 3:45:39 PM PDT
by
TommyDale
(Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
To: TommyDale
Several years ago a neighbor and I started a garden that bordered both our properties (no fence). We planted all sorts of plants and with proper weeding and watering it was really looking good. Unfortunately my neighbor moved and the new neighbors (as nice as they may be) have no interest in the garden. Their side has gone unwatered and unweeded for over a year now. I have come to the realization that it is now almost impossible to control the weeds that are now taking over my part of the garden.
Weeds are easy to grow, gardens are not.
To: Muzzle_em
I don't have a problem with the way people worship.
If they prefer hymnals, that's fine. If they prefer the KJV, that's fine. If the women prefer putting their hair up in buns, that's fine.
I just get a little fed up with the people who believe that an 16th century hymnals on an organ are more righteous than a modern song with drums and guitars.
To: nmh
"That church has become a joke"
That's entertainment...which is what Christians are being asked to settle for instead of suffering for the Gospel's sake. Jesus said the world will hate His followers because they hated Him. I don't hear that mentioned in Warren and the other church growthers positively Polyanna advertising.
To: hiho hiho
MY FEET ARE ON THE ROCK
By Larry Norman
My feet are on the rock, my name is on the roll
But moving and a-grooving does not satisfy my soul.
So when I'm down, I go off on my own
When I feel moved I dance before the throne
(just like David).
Some people think I'm strange,
Yeh they think I'm some kind of fool
You know they shake their heads in church
And they laugh at me in school
But I believe Someone rolled away that stone
(and I am not alone)
So when I feel the need, I dance before the throne.
Take it easy, nice and slow.
Feel His presence, don't you know.
If He says follow, I will go
I feel like dancing 'cause he saved my soul.
Goliath had a sword, David had a stone
I have got the Lord and I am not alone,
So if you knock me down
Brother I will not fight you back
You know God loves all his children
Red white yellow brown and black.
My feet are on the rock, my name is on the roll
But moving and a-grooving does not satisfy my soul
(Don't wanna do the stroll)
When I'm down, I go off on my own
(and I am not alone)
When I feel moved, I dance before the throne.
Back off, Jimmy, It's not wrong -
This kind of music comes from the church, not from the devil.
To: kittymyrib
"That's entertainment...which is what Christians are being asked to settle for instead of suffering for the Gospel's sake. Jesus said the world will hate His followers because they hated Him. I don't hear that mentioned in Warren and the other church growthers positively Polyanna advertising."
I don't understand why people don't SEE THIS especially if they did have truth in them.
It truly boggles my mind as to what passes for "Christianity" today. Rick Warren. Joel what's his name in Texas ... he behaves and sounds just like a slick used car salesman. What a disgrace he is to his fathers Biblical legacy. No seminary. Just marketing with NO substance and a slick smile to fill his pockets. Just amazing what lost souls will buy into.
38
posted on
09/24/2006 8:44:59 PM PDT
by
nmh
(Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
To: Mr. Brightside
I don't believe the new music is less rightous than the old. I just happen to prefer the traditional Hynms and organ accomponyment.
39
posted on
09/24/2006 11:58:46 PM PDT
by
BnBlFlag
(Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
To: Sue Perkick; sauropod
I'm without a church right now myself because I refuse to be part of this.Welcome to the club.
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