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To: BelegStrongbow
on a church which was founded as a monarchy

THis is the popular paradygm espoused by Roman Catholics and even ECUSA members, themselves.

Winston Churchill is very clear in book one of his History of the English Speaking Peoples, that the interests of Rome were always antagonistic to the interests of the English Christian church which was founded on a monastic model by St. patrick.

The Roman variant always dominated the European continent and was part of the Norman Invasion.

There is a very old Christian tradition that used to be singularly British but now has degenerated in secularism at all levels in the Anglican (British) church.

15 posted on 09/21/2006 4:41:04 PM PDT by x_plus_one (Muslim immigration breaks democracy into a self-defeating system .)
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To: x_plus_one

I believe you are misconstruing what I wrote. What I meant was that from antiquity, the Western Church has been ruled by monarchic bishops and this was as true in England as anywhere else. This continues to be the ecclesial form, but that form has now been subjected to democratic oppression and overrule. The two do not go together, as the subsequent history has seen.

It can be argued that King Henry thought that it was only a matter of changing one monarch for another, but he was sadly mistaken and the English Church has paid the price for that mistake. Now, the Roman See made some mistakes as well, one of the worst being to require English Romans to disobey the lawful sovereignty of Elizabeth. This put them in an impossible position because they were bound by two equally valid vows which utterly canceled each other out. That was an error of historic proportions, which only time has managed to smooth out, due to the eventual repeal of the Clarendon Code and the general relaxation of intolerance for non-Anglicans in England.

I understand the point you make in your post but you will have to help me see how it refutes what I wrote.


One last thing: St. Patrick founded the Irish church, and it was originally founded on episcopal lines (i.e., ecclesial monarchy). He never served in England and was in fact ordained and consecrated in Gaul. Due to the tribal lines in Ireland, the abbot quickly became the power in the church and often had bishops in his abbey choir. That has little to do with the English Church, however, which was founded as an episcopal ecclesium by St. Augustine, refounded on the same basis by St. Theodore and carried forward from that day to this.


16 posted on 09/21/2006 4:55:08 PM PDT by BelegStrongbow (www.stjosephssanford.org: Ecce Pactum, id cape aut id relinque)
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