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To: Buggman; TopCat
Oh, please. Have I ever called the Jews stupid?

Well I'd just assumeed you thought they must be if they're not privy to all the enlightenment you have about all of their own traditions. Sorry, I should have just assumed they are blinded and deaf as topcat believes. That sounds better.

434 posted on 09/29/2006 10:03:46 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; topcat54
I believe that the Jewish people as a whole are blinded in part (Romans 11:25)--that is, they have a big blind spot in matters pertaining to Yeshua. This is mostly spiritual, and from God (cf. Isa. 6:9ff), not a matter of the Jewish people being intrinsically stupid or any other such nonsense. This blindness was caused so that the Gospel could go freely to the Gentiles.

Part of this blindness is our fault; centuries of persecution have a way of making a person reject another's truth-claim out of hand.

I don't believe this blind-spot means the Jews are always wrong regarding their interpretation of the Tanakh, and I do in fact believe that the rabbis have uncovered many truths that we've overlooked. That's why I like to read them. But tell me, if the Jewish people are pure and have an unblemished record in understanding their own Scriptures, why was Isaiah 53 universally attributed by the rabbis to the Messiah until the Middle Ages, when suddenly they changed the interpretation to make it less Christian? (And if you don't believe me on that one, go do some homework and see if you can disprove that from a primary source.)

Both sides are guilty of missing the point, more often than not. Both sides have spent centuries defining themselves by what the other is not rather than what is written in Scripture. Both sides have been guilty of annuling the Word of God by their human traditions. And in case you hadn't noticed, I go after my Christian brothers far more often than I do my Jewish ones--because I believe in cleaning one's own house up before condemning another's.

With all respect, I think the real thing which bothers you is that you personally abandoned Yeshua for the teachings of the rabbis, and it makes you uncomfortable to see Him in the Torah and the oldest traditions of the Jewish people.

Your argument by outrage rings hollow, because there is no substance to it. If there is something specific which I have written that is incorrect--for example, if you thought me incorrect that the Talmud predicts the coming of the Messiah on Rosh Hashanah--then you are welcome to point that out and present your counter-argument and evidence. But simply saying that I'm wrong because you don't personally like my conclusions or going the, "How dare you say the Jews are wrong about anything!" route proves nothing and does not further the discussion in any way.

And finally, you're playing the hypocrite. You run around calling Christianity a Mithraic cult, but get all offended if someone offers the least criticism of modern Judaism. Don't dish out what you can't take.

I like you, Invinc, I really do. I consider you a brother, though I know you don't feel the same about me. And I've appreciated your jumping in on my side of a number of threads. And I also appreciate your sensitivity on Jewish issues--God knows that the Jews historically have enough reasons to be suspcious of Christians. But getting offended at someone who is showing why Jews who happen to believe that Yeshua is the Messiah should stay Jews and why the Gentiles should rejoice in the Torah instead of despising it is just plain silly, and amounts to cutting off your nose to spite your face.

L'shanah tova tikatevu.

440 posted on 09/29/2006 11:17:38 AM PDT by Buggman (http://brit-chadasha.blogspot.com)
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