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To: topcat54; 1000 silverlings; DAVEY CROCKETT; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; ladyinred; Alex Murphy; ...
Well, at least you're actually answering the article now instead of going off on tangents.

Apart from the fact that none of the apostles or New testament writers ever authorized the celebration of "Rosh Hashanah" or any of the other cultic Judaic feast days in the context of the new testament assembly . . .

First of all, even if it were true that none of the Apostles "authorized" the celebration of any "cultic Judaic feast days in the context of the new testament assembly," that's simply an argument from silence. Did they "de-authorize" the Appointed Times of the Lord? These days were commanded by the Word of the Lord Himself from Mt. Sinai, and confirmed by that same Word's command that even the least of the commands of the Torah be kept (Mat. 5:17-19). Why shouldn't we assume that lacking any command to the contrary that we shouldn't keep on following the previous command already given?

Secondly, it's blatantly untrue that the Apostles did not "authorize" the keeping of the Feasts, and indeed, the whole Torah. The Lord's Supper was part and parcel of the Passover. Moreover, Sha'ul (Paul) writes, "For even Messiah our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth" (1 Co. 5:7-8). He tried to return to Jerusalem in time for Shavuot (Pentecost; Acts 20:16), one of the three pilgrimage Feasts. And as this article has shown, he directly linked the Second Coming to the advent of the Feast of Trumpets.

Thirdly, as usual, you are guilty of a double-standard: You demand specific Apostolic authorization to observe Rosh Hashanah, but can provide none for observing Sunday, Christmas, or Easter. If you can observe days about which nothing is said in Scripture, according to traditions that have nothing to do with the Bible, you certainly cannot complain that some might wish to actually observe the times that God Himself commanded.

. . . this analysis fails to deal with the substance of the book of Hebrews esp. as it proclaims the end of the old covenant.

As usual, you confuse the replacement of the Old Covenant with the New with the replacement of the Torah. Again, what are the terms of the New Covenant?

Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says the LORD; but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says the LORD, I will put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know the LORD; for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.
--Jeremiah 31:31-34
Since I've already dealt with this issue at length, I'm not going to rehash it here. Those who are interested can see my explanation as to why the New Covenant doesn't do away with the Torah on my blog here.

Regarding the celebration of the Lord' Supper, the (ethnically Jewish but religiously Christian) apostle Paul tells us:

Actually, he was religiously Jewish too. Christianity did not yet exist as a separate religion, but as a sect within first-century Judaism (Acts 28:22).

But in any case, I would argue that "this bread" and "this cup" speak specifically of the matzah (unleavened bread) and wine of the Passover Seder, not of what we now refer to as "the Lord's Supper," ripped from its original historical and ceremonial context. It is possible that the elements of the Supper were included in the regular communal "breaking of bread" that the early Church celebrated together, and that Sha'ul was referring to that, but the context of 1 Co. 11 does not demand it.

Paul never told anyone to blow horns annually, or invent annual worship practices based (loosely) on the cultic observances of old Israel.

Since when does Sha'ul's authority supercede that of YHVH Himself?

The sin of Nadab and Abihu was to presume to worship God in a way that He had not commanded them.

Yep. And those who gather together in "a holy convocation" on Yom Teruah to hear the sound of the trumpet blast together are those who are are worshipping YHVH according to the manner in which He personally commanded them and never recinded in the Person of Yeshua.

This same cavalier attitude is common in the church today. All sorts of unique forms of worship are introduced under the guise of being faithful. But in reality God has not called for these worship patterns.

You are correct. God never called for the Sabbath to be either ignored or removed to Sunday. He never commanded the observance of His Son's birth at the Winter's Solstice. He never commanded the change of any of His Appointed Times. He never commanded us to tell Jewish believers to stop keeping the Torah or even Jewish customs.

If you want to get picky about it, He never commanded us to play any musical instruments in the NT (a fact which the Church of Christ uses to disallow it). He never commanded us to tithe in the NT. He specifically commanded us through the Apostles not to succumb to factionalism, to calling ourselves by the name of Sha'ul, Apollos . . . or John Calvin, for that matter.

Once again, we see you succumbing to a kind of practical Marcionism: You admit the canonicity of the Tanakh in the sense that you keep it in your Bible, but you refuse to obey anything to the left of the book of Matthew, ignoring Sha'ul's exhortation that, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Ti. 3:16-17).

The fact is that all churches have their own traditional observances. If you are not calling for your own church to abandon its yearly Christmas pagent and anniversery pot-luck or whatever, neither should you call for those of us who observe God's Appointed Times to cease to gather together on Rosh Hashanah to hear the blast of the shofar according to God's command.

160 posted on 09/25/2006 10:27:19 AM PDT by Buggman (http://brit-chadasha.blogspot.com)
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To: Buggman

Thanks for the ping!


167 posted on 09/25/2006 11:40:15 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Buggman; 1000 silverlings; DAVEY CROCKETT; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; ladyinred; Alex Murphy; ...
A lot of this is old ground, but just so we are clear on a few points.

Secondly, it's blatantly untrue that the Apostles did not "authorize" the keeping of the Feasts, and indeed, the whole Torah.

The Christian church recognizes that the Lord's Supper has replaced Passover in God's new covenant economy. I don't think this basic fact in dispute.

What is in dispute is the juadizing of the Lord's Supper to that it precisely mimicks something that is more akin to the traditions of the apostate rabbis rather than what we see, for example, in 1 Cor. 11 which is devoid of any uniquely Jewish trappings.

"... Therefore let us keep the feast, ..."

Note, it does not say, "Let us therefore keep all the feast days of the Jews as the Jews", which is apparently what you think it says. You believe gentiles should become religiously Jewish. That is not the NT take on things.

The fact remains that there is no authority in the New Testament for observing all the old covenant feast days according to an arbitrary tradition invented in an era that is post-apostolic and post-temple.

And it not a matter of "practical Marcionism" to suggest judaizing Christians have no authority for doing what they claim to be doing. It's merely pointing out the obvious; the klaw has changed, the cultic shadows have given way to the universal substance under the ruler of all nations, King Jesus.

Indeed, such would be impossible within introducing tradition no different from the traditions of the post-temple apostate rabbis of Judaism.

Since I've already dealt with this issue at length, I'm not going to rehash it here.

That's a rather hollow claim since we all agree that "Torah" has been significantly altered in the new covenant. Any plain reading of the book of Hebrews can make that clear. So the question is how much has God altered the law to fit conditions under the term of the new covenant? Has God written the law on our hearts that we ought to observe the judaistic Passover or feast of trumpets? Has God witten the law on our hearts that we ought not to shave around the sides of our heads, or not to wear clothing of mixed materials?

What "tradition" shall we follow on these things?

It might do well to consider Edersheim's comments of the matter of trumpets:

In the law of God only these two things are enjoined in the observance of the ‘New Moon’—the ‘blowing of trumpets’ (Num 10:10) and special festive sacrifices (Num 28:11-15). Of old the ‘blowing of trumpets’ had been the signal for Israel’s host on their march through the wilderness, as it afterwards summoned them to warfare, and proclaimed or marked days of public rejoicing, and feasts, as well as the ‘beginning of their months’ (Num 10:1-10). The object of it is expressly stated to have been ‘for a memorial,’ that they might ‘be remembered before Jehovah,’ it being specially added: ‘I am Jehovah your God.’ It was, so to speak, the host of God assembled, waiting for their Leader; the people of God united to proclaim their King. At the blast of the priests’ trumpets they ranged themselves, as it were, under His banner and before His throne, and this symbolical confession and proclamation of Him as ‘Jehovah their God,’ brought them before Him to be ‘remembered’ and ‘saved.’ And so every season of ‘blowing the trumpets,’ whether at New Moons, at the Feast of Trumpets or New Year’s Day, at other festivals, in the Sabbatical and Year of Jubilee, or in the time of war, was a public acknowledgment of Jehovah as King. Accordingly we find the same symbols adopted in the figurative language of the New Testament. As of old the sound of the trumpet summoned the congregation before the Lord at the door of the Tabernacle, so ‘His elect’ shall be summoned by the sound of the trumpet in the day of Christ’s coming (Matt 24:31), and not only the living, but those also who had ‘slept’ (1 Cor 15:52)—’the dead in Christ’ (1 Thess 4:16). Similarly, the heavenly hosts are marshalled to the war of successive judgments (Rev 8:2; 10:7), till, as ‘the seventh angel sounded,’ Christ is proclaimed King Universal: ‘The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever’ (Rev 11:15). (Temple—Its Ministry and Services, Chapter 15 The New Moons: The Feast of the Seventh New Moon, or of Trumpets, or New Year’s Day)
Note that (ethnically Jewish but religiously Christian) Edershiem does not go to the excess of suggesting that the Second Coming will be on the old covenant day called "Rosh Hashanah". No one can know that, and there is certainly not enough information in the Scripture to draw such a conclusion, otherwise I'm sure Edershiem would have made that connection.

"Also in the day of your gladness, in your appointed feasts, and at the beginning of your months, you shall blow the trumpets over your burnt offerings and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; and they shall be a memorial for you before your God: I am the Lord your God." (Num. 10:10)

The trumpet sounding was not limited to one day of the year in ancient Israel. But it was indded related to the offering of sacrifices to the Lord. To single out one day, Rosh Hashanah, and try to identify that with the Second Coming is still arbitrary.

BTW, I'm not going to mention Christmas/Easter since that not my schtick and I do not need to defend the practices of others. If someone else wants to argue the biblical basis for observing "Christian holy days" they can do so. Romish Christmas and judaizing Rosh Hashanah are the same in my book.

169 posted on 09/25/2006 12:26:13 PM PDT by topcat54
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