[PetroniusMaximus]

"Your both quotes, outside of their proper context and in the sense you quote them, reflect Gnostic beliefs in evilhood of flesh, condemned by the Church a long time ago."



In my reading of the NT, generally speaking, I find that the "flesh" does not refer to the physical human body, but to the fallen nature - all that we are apart from God.

This is not Gnosticism. The Bible nowhere condemns the physical creation as evil per se - even though it is under the curse. What it condemns in the fallen nature. Paul was referring to this when he said "In me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing."

Paul was clear that the unchanged human being can not enter the Kingdom. The human body must be changed before it can be in the presence of God.

[annalex]

Exactly: you are arguing for me. Gnosticism is to say that since flesh and what it connotes in the Scripture is corrupted by sin, a miraculous preservation of the physical flesh is contrary to the divine will.

One can argue from Scripture alone that the Scripture does not positively advise venerating the relics of the saints, or even that it does not advise any form of veneration of the saints. But one cannot argue that miraculous preservation of the flesh is contrary to scripture.

[Iscool]

Paul was clear that the unchanged human being can not enter the Kingdom

I almost hate to do this but I can't seem to help myself...Which Kindgom are you referring to? The Kindgom of God, or the Kingdom of Heaven?

[Iscool]

In my reading of the NT, generally speaking, I find that the "flesh" does not refer to the physical human body, but to the fallen nature - all that we are apart from God.

As I see it, the fallen nature includes the flesh...Every reference to the flesh in the OT means, flesh...