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To: Kolokotronis; All

hello people,

As some of you might kow, im holder of Balkan Ping list, I live in Serbia and from Serbian-hungarian origin.
I live in Vojvodina, northern province of Serbia, where, although predominantly papulated with Serbs, also some 200,000 catholic Hugarians live. so far, inspite of all wars, pretty good relations between Ortodox and Catholics exist. so, as a man basicaly torned towards politics I cant enter in some religion discussion, due to the fact that im no expert in field of religion. I would like just to comment on Ortodox-catholic life in Serbia and customes concerning that life.
There are many mixed marriages, basicaly they are not even called that that is how much they are common in Serbia. Yet, there is a custom that when Catholic-Ortodox couple get married, some of them go to both churches to be wedd, in Ortodox and catholic in same day, also they baptise their children in both churches also in same day. some belief is among peoplethat both rituals must be respected if your parents are Catholic and Ortodox or babtism would not be concidered "true" and "right". So, my father, laso was baptised in both churches and some of my friends were wedd in both churches. I never saw that a person is both Catholic and Ortodox in same time, but people that are "Double-baptised" are commonly celebrating both Catholic and Ortodox hollidays, and later, upon them is will they declare themselves as catholics or Ortodox, yet even then, they and their famillies respect both customs. Also, when Serbian girl marries to catholic, she usualy brings hers family Saint-protector Icon into husbands house, and that is very unusual that women celebrates saint-protector, so, catholic home, accept an Ortodox custom. Even if that is not a case, Catholic family accepts Ortodox feasts and hollidays even in most modest manner, and young wife is even expected to prepare special dinner for Ortodox hollidays. Same thing goes when Catholic girl marries into Ortodox family, she brings catholic feasts and hollidays and she is also sxpected to prepare dinners or feasts on those days.
Anyway, that is laics wiew on Ortodox-Catholic agenda, even in small part of the world like Serbia is.


16 posted on 09/10/2006 9:01:27 AM PDT by kronos77 (www.savekosovo.org say NO to Al-Qaeda new sanctuary (Go IDF!))
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To: kronos77

You've described just the way I was brought up with an Irish Catholic father and a Greek Orthodox mother.


17 posted on 09/10/2006 11:16:15 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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http://www.soufanieh.com/main.index.html


18 posted on 09/10/2006 11:38:13 AM PDT by Nihil Obstat
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To: kronos77; Kolokotronis; All
Yet, there is a custom [in Voyvodina, an ehtnically heterogenious province of Serbia bordeirng with Hungary] that when Catholic-Ortodox couple get married, some of them go to both churches to be wedd, in Ortodox and catholic in same day, also they baptise their children in both churches also in same day. some belief is among peoplethat both rituals must be respected if your parents are Catholic and Ortodox or babtism would not be concidered "true" and "right"

There are two parts to my comment: one is a historical perspective and the other concerns matters of faith.

One has to know the background of this abomination, for the lack of a better word. It's called: communism. It was a policy of communist authorities in the former Yugoslavia for approximately half a century to relativize and even ridicule anything that had to do with ethnic identity. The regime was not openly hostile towards religion, but religion was looked upon with scorn and even disdain as something reactionary (read: anticommunist), backward, superstitious, and so on.

Generations raised under such a regime have maintained but a skeleton of their religious identity, often retaining it on paper more than in praxis. Traditionally, religious observances were morphed into state-observed secular holidays (thus a New Year was a Christmas-like holiday without Chirst in it, while Christmas was a "private" observance).

Needless to say, liturgical life was not highly favored and was generally subdued. People who were very religious were usually considered as "zealots" or even "extremists." The Serbian Orthodox Church was in particular identified as the source of animosity towards the regime, a sanctuary for the "nationalists," and was, like the Church in Russia, heavily infiltrated by communist agents, so much so that even the Patriarch was at one time suspected of being one.

The Serbian community in Diaspora for that reason formed the so-called Free Serbian Eparchy in America, Australia and Canada, in full schism with the Patriarchy in Belgrade, the way the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR) was created for the same reason several decades earlier, following the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917.

Much more importantly, was the communist official policy known as the "Brotherhood and Unity." Intermarriages across ethnic lines and religious backgrounds were encouraged and lauded. Everyone was supposed to be a nondescript "Yugoslav" (even those who did not fit the bill because they were not ethnic Slavs [the name Yugoslav means Southern Slav]).

Unfortunately, the disease introduced by the communists still persists. This is why such abominations that you describe being practiced in Voyvodina are not surprising to me but they ought to be to the world.

For one, marriage is a sacrament a holy mystery, of union of a man and a woman by God. You can't be married in one church and then say God didn't do it "equitably" until He marries the couple in the other church!

Your lack of faith or upbringing in faith is perfectly clear which is why you probably do much better on political forums.

Secondly, being "double-baptized" is a heresy, always has been, for the last 2,000 years. I honestly do not believe that the priests know that the couple has already been married in one church or that the baby has already been baptized in the other.

If they do know, and still perform the sacraments, I would like you to tell us which churches in your sunny Voyvodina are doing that so that I can write to their bishops and ask them how is that possible. Much obliged.

44 posted on 09/10/2006 9:12:14 PM PDT by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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