Premillennialism: The Second Foundation

Tribulation Force ^ | Thomas Ice

[xzins]

THE PRE-TRIB RESEARCH JOURNALS
Premillennialism: The Second Foundationby Thomas Ice

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The second foundation stone supporting the pretribulational rapture of the church is the biblical doctrine known as premillennialism. Premillennialism teaches that the second advent will occur before Christ's thousand-year reign from Jerusalem upon earth. In the early church, premillennialism was called chiliasm, from the Greek term meaning 1,000 used six times in Revelation 20:2-7. Charles Ryrie cites essential features of premillennialism as follows: "Its duration will be 1,000 years; its location will be on this earth; its government will be theocratic with the personal presence of Christ reigning as King; and it will fulfill all the yet-unfulfilled promises about the earthly kingdom."¹

Premillennialism is contrasted with the postmillennial teaching that Christ will return after He has reigned spiritually from His throne in heaven for a long period of time during the current age, through the church, and the similar amillennial view that also advocates a present, but pessimistic, spiritual reign of Christ. Biblical premillennialism is a necessary foundation for pretribulationalism since it is impossible for either postmillennialism or amillennialism to support pretribulationism.

Historical Overview

Without question, premillennialism was the earliest and most widely held view of the earliest centuries of the church. The dean of church historians, Philip Schaff has said, "The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene Age [A.D. 100-325] is the prominent chiliasm, or millenarianism, . . . a widely current opinion of distinguished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papia, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and Lactantius."² German historian Adolph Harnack has said, "First in point of time came the faith in the nearness of Christ's second advent and the establishing of His reign of glory on the earth. Indeed it appears so early that it might be questioned as an essential part of the Christian religion. . . . it must be admitted that this expectation was a prominent feature in the earliest proclamation of the gospel, and materially contributed to its success. If the primitive churches had been under the necessity of framing a 'Confession of Faith,' it would certainly have embraced those pictures by means of which the near future was distinctly realized."³

Premillennialism began to die out in the established Catholic Church during the life of Augustine (A.D. 354-430). Ryrie summarizes this change: "With the union of church and state under Constantine, the hope of Christ's coming faded some. The Alexandrian school of interpretation attacked the literal hermeneutic on which premillennialism was based, and the influence of the teaching of Augustine reinterpreted the concept and time of the Millennium."4 Premillennialism has always survived, even when it has not been dominant or widely known. Chiliasm, though suppressed by the dominant Catholic Church, nevertheless survived through "underground" and "fringe" groups of Christians during the 1,000 year mediaeval period. During the Reformation, Anabaptists and Hugenots helped to revive premillennialism, until it was adopted on a wide scale by many Puritans during the Post-Reformation era.

The last 200 years have seen the greatest development and spread of premillennialism since the early church. Starting in the British Isles and spreading to America, consistent premillennialism, known as dispensational premillennialism, has come to dominate the Evangelical faith. This form of premillennialism has given rise to the most rigorous application of the literal hermeneutic which has lead to the championing of pretribulational premillennialism in our own day.

Biblical Basis for Premillennialism

Even though the strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear statement of Revelation 20:1-7, where six times Christ's kingdom is said to last 1,000 years, the Old Testament and the rest of the New Testament also support a premillennial understanding of God's plan for history. Jeffrey Townsend has given an excellent summary of the biblical evidence for premillennialism in the following material:

Developed from the Old Testament

"The OT covenants with Abraham and David established unconditional promises of an Israelite kingdom in the ancient land ruled by the ultimate Son of David. The OT prophets, from the earliest to the latest, looked forward to the establishment of this kingdom. Its principle features will include: regathering of the Jews from the nations to the ancient land, mass spiritual regeneration of the Jewish people, restoration of Jerusalem as the principal city and her Temple as the spiritual center of the world, the reign of David's ultimate Son over the twelve reunited tribes dwelling securely in the land as the pre-eminent nation of the world. Based on OT Scripture, a this-earthly, spiritual-geopolitical fulfillment of these promises is expected.

Developed from the New Testament

The NT writers do not reinterpret the OT kingdom promises and apply them to the church. Instead the church participates now in the universal, spiritual blessings of the Abrahamic, Davidic, and New Covenants without negating the ultimate fulfillment of the covenant promises to Israel. The NT authors affirm rather than deny the ancient kingdom hope of Israel. Matthew, Luke, and Paul all teach a future for national Israel. Specifically, Acts 1 with Acts 3 establishes that the restoration of the kingdom to Israel takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Romans 11 confirms that at the time of the second advent, Israel will have all her unconditional covenants fulfilled to her. First Corinthians 15 speaks of an interim kingdom following Christ's return but prior to the eternal kingdom of God during which Christ will rule and vanquish all His enemies. Finally, Revelation 20 gives the chronology of events and length of Christ's kingdom on this earth prior to the eternal state.

In sum, the case for premillennialism rests on the fact that the OT promises of an earthly kingdom are not denied or redefined but confirmed by the NT. The basis of premillennialism is not the reference to the thousand years in Revelation 20. That is merely a detail, albeit an important one, in the broad pattern of Scripture. The basis of premillennialism is the covenant-keeping nature of our God, affirmed over and over again in the pages of Scripture. God will do what He has said He will do, for His own glory among the nations. And what He has said He will do is fulfill the Abrahamic, Davidic, and New Covenants to a regathered, regenerated, restored nation of Israel at the second coming of Jesus Christ, and for a thousand years thereafter, prior to the eternal kingdom of God."5

Conclusion

Premillennialism is merely the result of interpreting the whole Bible, Genesis to Revelation, in the most natural way -- literally. Many of the critics admit that if the literal approach is applied consistently to the whole of Scripture, then premillennialism is the natural result. If the Old Testament promises are ever going to be fulfilled literally for Israel as a nation, then they are yet in the future. This is also supportive of premillennialism. Premillennialism also provides a satisfactory and victorious end to history in time as man through Christ satisfactorily fulfills his creation mandate to rule over the world.

Premillennialism is a necessary biblical prerequisite needed to build the later biblical doctrine of the rapture of the church before the seven-year tribulation.

Endnotes

1 Charles C. Ryrie, Basic Theology: A Popular Systematic Guide To Understanding Biblical Truth (Wheaton, Ill.: Victor Books, 1986), p. 450.

2 Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (New York: Scribner, 1884),, Vol. 2, p. 614.

3 Adolph Harnack, "Millennium," The Encyclopedia Britannica, Ninth Edition (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1883), XVI, pp. 314-15. Cited in Renald E. Showers, There Really Is A Difference! A Comparison of Covenant and Dispensational Theology (Bellmawr, N.J.: The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry, Inc., 1990), p. 117.

4 Ryrie, Basic Theology, p. 452.

5 Jeffrey L. Townsend, "Premillennialism Summarized: Conclusion" in Edited by Donald K. Campbell & Jeffrey L. Townsend, A Case For Premillennialism: A New Consensus (Chicago: Moody Press, 1992), pp. 270-71.

[topcat54]

I don't think it disagrees with him or with Irenaeus. Dispensation is a word. DispensationalISM is a theological concept that must bear some semblance to that word and its biblical usage. It does.

Just curious, but have you ever gone through the work of actually exegeting the word in its biblical context? There seem to be a lot of claims flying around, but precious little reference to the Bible and how the word is actually used in specific cases.

Earlier you said:

Since "dispensation" is a bible word, there is no definition beyond that definition which is necessary. Theologians can create books to no end, but in the long run it all comes down to the usage of the word in the bible.

The greek is oikonomia and it means "administration." It speaks of God's policy regarding dealing with humans.

You do realize that this definition is readily accepted by even covenant theologians. E.g., the Westminster Confession says, "There are not therefore two covenants of grace, differing in substance, but one and the same, under various dispensations." But covenant theologians absolutely reject the fundamental premises of dispensationalISM (the theology) as reflected in their use of the word.

How does you interpretation of the biblical word "dispensation" differ from how covenant theologians would use it?

[xzins]

Not knowing them, I'd hazard to guess that my use of the word "dispensation" does not vary from theirs. There aren't too many usages in the NT.

One covenant with 2 dispensations.....sounds like they're using it as "approaches," as in "2 approaches."

[topcat54]

OK, so let me see if I understand.

A) Covenant theology utterly rejects the definition of the word "dispensation" associated with the theology of dispensationalism as being inconsistent with the biblical use.

B) You assert that dispensationalism's uses of the term is consistent with the biblical use.

C) You further assert that your view probably "does not vary" from the view of covenant theology.

I'm thus puzzled how you get from B to C with A as your premise unless you believe that covenant theology and dispensationalism do not disagree on fundamental issues.

[xzins]

C) You further assert that your view probably "does not vary" from the view of covenant theology.

Don't play games.

We're talking about the word, "dispensation."

[topcat54]

Don't play games. We're talking about the word, "dispensation."

I'm not, just trying to understrand what you are arguing, e.g.,

DispensationalISM is a theological concept that must bear some semblance to that word and its biblical usage. It does.

When you assert that "DispensationalISM bear[s] some semblance to that word and its biblical usage" but then do not demonstrate specifically how that is the case, instead stating that you probably agree with covenant theology on the biblical use of the term, I'm a bit confused.

Why not just explain the passages in the Bible where it is used, and then show us how modern dispensationalism either does or does not conform to that definition?

[.30Carbine]

For Christ's love compels us,
because we are convinced that one died for all,
and therefore all died.
And that those who live should no longer live for themselves
but for him who died for them
and was raised again.
~2 Corinthians 5:14-15

I interpret these two verses to mean

1) that Christ, the "one," did indeed "die for all" and that all are dead apart from Him. (I'm convinced of this.)

2) that He is raised again in "those who live" - that is, they are alive and not dead like the rest of mankind still "in" sins and trespasses, being born again by believing in both His death and His resurrection, testified to by God, by the Holy Spirit, by the Word, by witnesses of the bodily appearing of Christ, and now by us!

You and I are alive "in" Christ just as much as once we were dead "in" sin! This enormous transaction occurred when we believed that God raised Christ from the dead! We heard the testimony, and perhaps had heard it our whole lives; when we actually believed it, we were moved from "in sin" to "In Christ" - from death to life!

All sin was nailed to the cross: "One died for all." All life is In Christ who took the penalty of death "for all" - and yet He LIVES - by the power of His perfect life - death could not hold Him!

Romans 6:5-11 also speaks of these things. There are many who know, i.e., believe - for the evidence is irrefutable - that Christ DIED, but not all men believe that He was RAISED and LIVES. We are born again when we accept this testimony: Christ Jesus lives today!

Dr. Eckleburg, how do you interpret 2 Corinthians 5:14-15?

[.30Carbine]

I know and believe the promise of God: I will be taken to meet Christ in the air before or at the precise moment that the Tribulation begins, either by grave- or on-the-earth-rapture. I don't use words like "dispensation" or "pre-this or -that" but His Word has convinced me: "I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world." (Rev. 3:10)

Persevere, dear xzins!

[xzins]

Thank you for your support, .30C. Some days a person needs affirmation.

I agree with you fully. He is able to keep us from the hour that is coming upon the earth.

And thus shall we ever be with the Lord.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You and I are alive "in" Christ just as much as once we were dead "in" sin! This enormous transaction occurred when we believed that God raised Christ from the dead!

The "transaction" occurred before the foundation of the world when God determined every speck of His creation. Our awareness of our salvation came to us when we first believed which came about by the Holy Spirit revealing to us the truth of Christ's atonement. We believe because our belief is part of God's plan for His creation.

The fact that we "feel" like this is our own doing is part of the mystery of God's will. But Scripture tells us over and over that it is "by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." -- Eph. 2:8-10.

And while sometimes Scripture uses the phrase "all" are saved (where I would maintain that "all" refers to "all believers") there can be no such ambiguity in verses like...

"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. -- Matthew 20:28

"For many are called, but few are chosen." -- Matthew 22:14

"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." -- Matthew 26:28

"For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." -- Mark 10:45

"And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many." -- Mark 14:24

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." -- Luke 13:24

And what does Paul say?

"Who game himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." -- Titus 2:14

There is overwhelming evidence for God's particular, personal, individual, predestined salvation of His sheep when compared to some amorphous "universal call" for salvation. This doesn't hinder us from preaching the Gospel because none of us knows the names of the elect. But this does not change the fact that God did indeed name His elect from before the foundation of the world based on nothing within the fallen man, but solely upon His good pleasure alone to bring glory to Himself.

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." -- John 17:9

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." -- Acts 13:48

We believe in Jesus Christ by the work of the Holy Spirit within us because God has ordained that we should believe.

The world conspires to tell the Christian this is not so. That God is a reactor and not an instigator; a supplicant and not the only architect and builder of our lives. The world wants us to be fearful and uncertain when we should be confident that Christ has died for all who believe in Him and has risen to prove that true. "...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

how do you interpret 2 Corinthians 5:14-15?

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 says that all who are convinced that Christ died to pay for their sins and rose from the cross are His children and will see eternity with Him.

And we are convinced by the work of the Holy Spirit within us. Or else what is the Holy Spirit for? To simply lead us half the way? To only give us partial directions? To nudge us?

Or is the work of the Holy Spirit definite and determined by God?

"It is probable ... that Calvin's greatest contribution to theological science lies in the rich development which he gives--and which he was the first to give--to the doctrine of the work of the Holy Spirit ... in the same sense in which we may say that the doctrine of sin and grace dates from Augustine, the doctrine of satisfaction from Anselm, the doctrine of justification by faith from Luther,--we must say that the doctrine of the work of the Holy Spirit is a gift from Calvin to the Church. It was he who first related the whole experience of salvation specifically to the working of the Holy Spirit" -- BB Warfield, "John Calvin the Theologian"

"... the testimony of the Spirit is more excellent than all reason. For God alone is a fit witness to himself in His Word, so also the Word will not find acceptance in men's hearts before it is sealed by the inward testimony of the Spirit. The same Spirit, therefore, who has spoken through the mouths of the prophets must penetrate into our hearts to persuade us that they faithfully proclaim what has been divinely commanded… By this power we are drawn and inflamed, knowingly and willingly, to obey him, yet also more vitally and more effectively than by mere human willing or knowing." -- JOHN CALVIN

THE LEADING OF THE SPIRIT by B.B. Warfield

[fortheDeclaration]

Carbine, you are correct.

You can't be elected in 'eternity past' and be in Christ and yet, be born into sin and be spiritually dead.

You get into Christ in time when you believe on Him.

Eph.1:4 is speaking of being chosen in Christ, God foreknowing who would receive Him in time (1Pe.1:2).

Dr. Eck, as for Jn.17:9 is speaking of the Apostles, who were chosen to perform a particular function (the primary meaning of election)

Vs 20 speaks of those who follow them, believing what they spoke about Christ (2Pe.1:16).

As for 'ordained' it means 'to appoint'.

God foreknew who would believe when given the Gospel and those were 'appointed' to eternal life (Rom.8).

As for the verses you use for 'many' many can refer to amounts (Deut.31:17)

Now, the Calvinists want to deny that 'all' is ever used 'without exception' except in Rom.3:28.

And it instead refers to all without distinction.

Yet, in Rm. 5:15-21 God makes it very clear that He is speaking of all without exception, since He uses 'all' to describe the state of the lost sinner (in Adam) and then the gift of grace which is for all men (in Christ-the Second Adam)

If all men are sinners without exception (and they are), so is the gift of grace for all men.

The only reason 'all' men are not saved is because they refuse the free gift of salvation (Jn.16:9)

[xzins]

The only reason 'all' men are not saved is because they refuse the free gift of salvation (Jn.16:9)

Making clear that salvation is ALL of grace, and that lostness is because of resistance/rejection.

That's why the words "accept" and "receive" are passive in nature. God by His kindness is leading us toward salvation. Jesus, when lifted up, would draw all men unto him.

Salvation is all of grace.

Lostness results from rejection. That's why Stephen could say to those Pharisees surrounding him, "Ye do always RESIST the Holy Spirit...."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You can't be elected in 'eternity past' and be in Christ and yet, be born into sin and be spiritually dead.

Of course you can, and this is where you make your fatal error.

Men are born into sin and they die sinning. The leopard cannot change his spots.

But even in our sins, we have been forgiven by Christ's atonement for us. So yesterday's sins are forgiven; today's sin; and even tomorrow's sins -- all paid for by the blood of Christ, according to God's election, and not due to anything inherently righteous within us. God saves us because He sees Christ within us, given to us by God, one name at a time.

And so, by the inward working of the Holy Spirit, we miraculously sin less and less.

All as God ordained, determined, willed, decreed, planned, executed, written in the indelible blood of Christ for all time.

God's "foreknowledge" is just a cop-out, clinging to some phantom righteousness within us which God responds to. It's just not there. All men sin all the time.

The only reason 'all' men are not saved is because they refuse the free gift of salvation

That philosophy assaults the Holy Spirit to the heart by saying the work of the Holy Spirit can be refused by men. I just don't recognize that Holy Spirit anywhere in Scripture.

God saves whom He will, solely based on His good pleasure, according to His determinant plan for salvation, ordained before the foundation of the world, for His glory alone.

If God wanted all men saved, all men would be saved.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ" -- 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

Did you obtain "the mind of Christ" on your own? Or even with a "little" help from God? Or was God 100% responsible for putting Christ within you and giving you a new heart with which to know Him?

THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT
by John Piper

[Dr. Eckleburg]

That's why the words "accept" and "receive" are passive in nature.

What dictionary are you using?

"To receive" is passive.

"To accept" is active.

[blue-duncan]

"You can't be elected in 'eternity past' and be in Christ and yet, be born into sin and be spiritually dead."

Just as the atonement was from eternity past so is election. The whole sacrificial system was poor copy of the reality that was in heaven and looked forward to it breaking into time. A believers life will catch up with his election in time. At present, believers are seen as perfect in Christ and yet our sanctification is in process and ultimately when we are in the presence of Jesus our sanctification will cath up with the perfection that God sees us in now.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The whole sacrificial system was poor copy of the reality that was in heaven and looked forward to it breaking into time. A believers life will catch up with his election in time. At present, believers are seen as perfect in Christ and yet our sanctification is in process and ultimately when we are in the presence of Jesus our sanctification will cath up with the perfection that God sees us in now.

Beautifully stated.

"...breaking into time."

Precisely so.

"And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth.'" -- John 11:42-43

[xzins]

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Synonyms.

Accept is a synonym of receive

http://books.google.com/books?id=8N4UReTJYhUC&dq=receive+synonyms++&pg=PA667&ots=79teX8Jlex&sig=9ypaaiW3m3YoE79TJdZqR_MxcGw&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26rls%3DHPID,HPID:2005-18,HPID:en%26sa%3DX%26oi%3Dspell%26resnum%3D0%26ct%3Dresult%26cd%3D1%26q%3Dreceive%2Bsynonyms%2B%2B%26spell%3D1&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=1

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Accept is a synonym of receive

According to the book, "Synonyms Discriminated: A Dictionary of Synonymous Words in the English Language" by Charles John; H. Percy Smith (Editor) (page 30)...

"to receive is purely passive," such as "I received a blow to the head," and "to accept is active and voluntary," such as 'I accept your invitation. We are commonly said to 'receive thanks' and 'accept services.'

We accept what we choose to take from another; we receive what he chooses to give up."

WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH

CHAPTER III
Of God's Eternal Decree

I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;[4] yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.[5]

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7]

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,[9] out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;[10] and all to the praise of His glorious grace.[11]

VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,[14] and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.[16]

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praised of His glorious justice.[17]

VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,[18] that men, attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.[19] So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;[20] and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the Gospel.[21]

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Soon to be my new tag...

"We accept what we choose to take from another; we receive what he chooses to give up."

[xzins]

Joh 1:11 -He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

Joh 12:48 - There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

[.30Carbine]

"You can't be elected in 'eternity past' and be in Christ and yet, be born into sin and be spiritually dead."

Just as the atonement was from eternity past so is election. The whole sacrificial system was poor copy of the reality that was in heaven and looked forward to it breaking into time. A believers life will catch up with his election in time. At present, believers are seen as perfect in Christ and yet our sanctification is in process and ultimately when we are in the presence of Jesus our sanctification will cath up with the perfection that God sees us in now.

Before I saw this ping, bd, I posted an appropriate reply on another thread to P-Marlowe! Here is what I said over there:

[P-Marlowe said] Calvinism makes God a respecter of persons (for no reason whatsoever). On what basis are we saved? Because God respects US? The Calvinist seems to think so. The non-Calvinist knows that God saves us because we have faith in his Son. It is his Son that God respects not the man.

I salute this particular part of your many posts! It aligns with what I have witnessed among the many faulty arguments abounding from the few on the forum, namely, a forgetful hearing of God's foreknowledge.

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good
to those who love God,
to those who are called
according to His purpose.

For those whom He foreknew,
[step one: God's foreknowledge]
He also predestined
to become conformed to the image of His Son,
so that He would be the firstborn
among many brethren;
[step two: Predestined to Christlikeness]
and these whom He predestined,
He also called;
[step three: The Individual Call of God in a human being's history]
and these whom He called,
He also justified;
[step four: Justified - Christ arose for our justification!]
and these whom He justified,
He also glorified.
[step five: Glorified in the Son!]
~Romans 8:28-30

The foreknowledge of God is vital to a complete understanding of our completed salvation in Christ; and it is all In Christ!

God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew
~Romans 11:2a

[A]nd if any one doth love God, this one hath been known by Him.
1 Corinthians 8:3 (Young's Literal)

[He] has saved us and called us with a holy calling,
not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace
which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity
2 Timothy 1:9

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout
Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
who are chosen
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
by the sanctifying work of the Spirit,
to obey Jesus Christ
and be sprinkled with His blood:
May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
~1 Peter 1:1-2

For He [Jesus!] was foreknown before the foundation of the world,
but has appeared in these last times
for the sake of you
who through Him are believers in God,
who raised Him from the dead
and gave Him glory,
so that your faith and hope
are in God.
~1 Peter 1:20-21

So yes, I agree with you, bd, the elect are born in sin and spiritually dead until the coming of the Call into what we call Time. When the Call comes and we are not disobedient to it (highly recommended reading: Paul's Testimony), the new birth occurs in Time. At that moment, all that God Knows from Eternity and is always true in Him - becomes reality for us - that is, our election, salvation, justification, glorification. In God these things actually are from the foundation of the world, when Christ was crucified - Him and us being presented when the fullness of time had come, in what we call "history." When the Scriptures say that God foreknew, it is saying that God foreknew. He is not in need of our informing Him of what is taking place; we are in need of His information to us! He says in His Word that "we ARE, we HAVE BEEN seated with Christ in the heavenlies!" It is so!