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To: Frank Sheed

The Catholic Church stands on Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium. That 3-legged stool is Christ's design.

Thank you for your answer, I appreaciate your candor and respectful tone. I do have a follow up question:

How does the RCC overcome the fact that some Tradition is not in any form explictly or implictly in Scripture. For instance in Maccabbees there is one singular reference to praying for those who wore a necklace they should not have and died. I'll concede that is praying for the dead, but how is that turned into the concept of purgatory--I don't recall, does the story continue that the dead were made to suffer before attaining eternal life? The rest of the NT has some refernces to refinging by fire, but those references ( to my recollection at this moment) are not in the context of mans salvation or the punishment due for the venial sins. Which leads me to the next itme up for bid...What is the RCC's perspective of the Scripture that says I will blot out their iniquities and remember them no more? Allow me to provide an example.

I get caught speeding. I go to court and am found not guilty for whatever reason and thus the court no longer determines I need to pay any penalty and have no guilt associated with this event. They have forgiven and forgotten and I go on with no "pennance" or guilt offering to provide to the court for this judgement, I don't need to do community service, pay a fine - in fact all i need to do is trust that I have been found not guilty by the judge.

Scripture (Jeremiah 31:34) tells us that God, for the sake of the Lamb's sacrifice will blot out the iniquities and remember them no more. How can one be punished for something that is blotted out (forgiven) and not remembered? Don't get me wrong, we more than deserve eternal punishment for our sins, howerver God tells us we will be spared this punishment as He has accepted Christ's atonging Sacrifice, once for all (for those who of course believe and accept this--i'm not a once saved always saved or everyone's saved Lutheran).

I look forward to your answer...blessings in Christ!


238 posted on 09/09/2006 9:58:48 AM PDT by phatus maximus (John 6:29...Learn it, love it, live it...)
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To: phatus maximus
How does the RCC overcome the fact that some Tradition is not in any form explictly or implictly in Scripture.

What is there to overcome about that? Apparently you are so steeped in "Sola Scripture", that you cannot even grasp the concept that the Tradition is a *distinct* authority; it does not depend upon Scripture for its authority. Likewise, the Magesterium is a distinct authority. It does not depend upon Scripture for its authority.

-A8

239 posted on 09/09/2006 10:44:36 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: phatus maximus

You seem to love the book of John. What do you make of this:

"John 21: 24-25. It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true. There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written."

Okay. Do you think everything Christ told His disciples is recorded? That is where Tradition comes from...an oral teaching that is passed on. Some was codified and some was not.

As for your analogy regarding Christ's sacrifice, He ransomed us. He went in and paid the bail bondsman for our full offense. However, you still must open the door of the cell, walk across the floor and leave the prison. That requires YOUR cooperation.

It sounds to me as if you do feel the once saved always saved route is what has happened. I do not. I give you Mark Shea's analogy told here:

http://www.mark-shea.com/salvation.html

Peace!


244 posted on 09/09/2006 5:27:53 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Tá brón orainn. Níl Spáinnis againn anseo.)
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