Posted on 09/07/2006 11:32:47 PM PDT by Salvation
You are right. Thanks for the correction.
In St. John's Gospel, Chapter 1, Jesus has gathered with him Simon Peter, Philip and Andrew. And Chapter 2;2 says "Jesus and his discioples had likewise been invited to the celebration." But it is in the 10th chapter of Matthew that the twelve Apostles are named. Interestingly, the Twelve are referred to both as "disciples" and as "apostles".
At any rate, some--if not all---were there at Cana.
Keep after me when I make mistakes :-)
I am always ready to learn.
Thanks.
Offhand, no. So?
Just as an example of how these "derived principles" can work: most Christians would agree that Christian marriage is monogamous, not polygamous. We agree even though almost all of the famous marriages of the O.T. patriarchs and kings were polygamous, and even though there is no verse in the N.T. which specifically condemns or bans polygamy.
We reach this conclusion, not by simple proof-texting, but by looking at the overall truths taught by Jesus about men, women, and marriage; by making reasonable inferences from these truths; by realizing that, historically, the Church has always held and taught monogamy; and by observing the laws of the Church concerning marriage.
How does this apply to the question of whether we can ask those in Heaven for their intercessory prayers?
This is how: we know that those who have "passed through death to life" before us are actually still living in Christ; we know that all who are "in Christ," both in heaven and on earth, are members of the Body of Christ; and so we know that as members of one Body we are still interconnected and we can still help one another.
Thus the idea of asking those who are already in heaven to pray for us is richly Biblical; it is a reasonable inference from what St. Paul taught about being members of the Body of Christ; and it is something which, historically, the Church has always taught and practiced.
We are celebrating her birthday and adoring her Son. Is the sarcasm really necessary? You are speaking of the Mother of God, and that kind of response towards His mother cannot be very pleasing to Him.
Exodus 25:18
"You shall make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat.
See also:
Exodus 25:19
Exodus 25:20
Exodus 25:22
Exodus 26:1
Exodus 26:31
Exodus 36:8
Exodus 36:35
Exodus 37:7
Exodus 37:8
Exodus 37:9
Numbers 7:89
1 Kings 6:23
1 Kings 6:25
1 Kings 6:27
1 Kings 6:28
1 Kings 6:29
1 Kings 6:32
1 Kings 6:35
1 Kings 7:29
1 Kings 7:36
Thatr's a whole lot of God-approved carving, engraving, and images, my dear.
Oh, but I can. I can even pray to you.
Like this:
HarleyD, please pray for me.
That's pretty obvious. You can ask ANYBODY for help. Even a fellow sinner. You could even ask me~!
Thanks for taking the time contribute, I understand your position. However, there are zero expamples in the Bible where we are instructed to seek help from dead people. There are many examples where Jesus is worshipped. In fact John The Baptist and Angels specifically mention to worship Jesus and not them.
I agree. But what about bowing and praying to the statue of a dead person?
No.
The Angel Gabriel called her "Blessed" because she heard the word of God and kept it (having the Word of God in her womb: that's some keeping!)
And this is not merely a biological thing, in the sense of a relationship between a "womb" and a "product of conception" or a mammary gland and an alimentary canal; it's a relationship between a whole person and a whole person, as Jesus said:
Luke 8:21
But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."
Luke 11:28
But He said, [to the woman who made it sound like it was only, and reductively, physical]"On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it."
Mary is not just an incubator. She is a person with an intimate and love-filled physical and spiritual, personal connection to the Lord Jesus. She's His Mother.
I am certain that He honors her, and is pleased when we do, too.
Or don't you think Jesus kept the Commandments, including "Honor thy father and thy mother"!
So Mary was "just chosen", eh? All the same, the fact remains that G_d chose Mary over anyone else means that He considered her most worthwhile. Who's going to argue with G_d Himself?
I am a Born-Again, (now a Presby with a new respect for the Catholic faith, thank you blessed John Paul the Great) but one willing to respect the Blessed Virgin Mary. It may be that G_d alone answers prayers, but He choses the saints to help listen and carry out, kind of a heavenly conduit.
What about this?
Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, even any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 8 Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,
In comparison to G_d, no one is special.
Nonsense. Have you never knelt at a loved one's grave? Have you never knelt at the bedside of your child? Kneeling has a variety of meanings, such as love, affection, respect. It does not always mean the adoration which is proper to God alone.
If, as you think, Catholics DID worship Mary, why would we deny it? I mean, if we did think she was a goddess, we would certainly trumpet the fact.
It makes no sense at all that a goddess's devotees would adore her as a deity AND deny that they did so. Why would we dissemble, if we actually thought she had all the powers of divinity?
But the fact of the matter is, she is a creature. She is a handmaid. She is a disciple. She is a dearly beloved mother. We have affection and respect for her.
Do you not love your mother? Imagine how much Jesus loves His!
Maybe because God exalts the humble and humbles the exalted?
Honest question: do you think the saints in eternity are still bound by the same laws of time and space that we are?
Not necessarily. She would need to be freed from the bonds of time and space --- but then, everybody in God's eternal Heaven is freed from time and space.
Her manner of knowing is mysterious to me, but I think it is something we will all have in common, when we are in heaven. It is not omniscience, but it is is beyond our present, earthly powers.
Thank you, bigcat32, for your gracious words: and that's exactly right. That's why Catholics don't worship Mary.
It is fascinating to realize that she was the first person in history to accept Jesus Christ as her personal Savior...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.