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To: topcat54
If they did share in the faith of Abraham they would fall down before Jesus the Messiah and true King of Israel, the one seated on David's throne in heaven.

A couple of problems here...David's throne is not in heaven and Jesus is not yet crowned the King of Kings...

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

His kingdom is not from here NOW...But it will be from here...

David's throne is a physical throne in a physical kingdom with a physical temple...

Those within the time frame of the prophecy of Mat., will have made it to heaven and sit with Jesus to Judge Israel...And this would be the Bride of Christ...

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I understand your church 'spiritualized most of Revelation (whatever that means) and do not accept it as reality...But you have to throw away an awful lot of bible if you're going to throw away Revelation since a large portion of the bible refers to this time period...

Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

And notice, these 'real Jews' will have some pretty tough requirements to get eternal life...And you also notice there is no requirement of baptism...No requirement of the Eucharist...It's pretty clear that Mat. 19:26 does not refer to any Christians...

And of course not...They are already sitting on the physical thrones as the Bride of Christ in the city of Jerusalem judging and reigning with Christ for a thousand years...And then, the White Throne Judgment...

10 posted on 09/03/2006 2:11:28 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Lord_Calvinus; Alex Murphy; Lee N. Field
A couple of problems here...David's throne is not in heaven and Jesus is not yet crowned the King of Kings...

You need to read the rest of the Bible, esp. the NT epistles written by Jesus' disciples. They have a different perspective.

"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know-- Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.' "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." (Acts 2:22-36)
If Jesus is not seated on David's throne then He has not been raised from the dead.

A lot of people miss the fact that physical things on earth under the old covenant were really just patterns of things in heaven. We see this plainly taught in the book of Hebrews regarding the matter of the temple. Cf. Heb 8:5; 9:23,24. Folks who look for a future physical temple on earth are obviously missing the real meaning of the physical temple. The same is true of "David's throne", which was merely a picture of God's heavenly throne where the Messiah now sits and reigns over the earth.

I realize futurists literalists have a difficult time dealing with the plain teaching in these verses because they are looking for a carnal fulfillment. They are like "Israel after the flesh" (1 Cor. 10:18) who still look for a fleshly king sitting on a carnal throne in earthly Jerusalem. But we also know that earthly Jerusalem is the city of Hagar and her spiritual offspring (Gal. 4:24,25). Why would you wish to live there?

11 posted on 09/03/2006 3:43:02 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: Iscool
Ok. Don't think I've seen the dispensational flat literalistic hermenutic taken that far before.

Questions for your contemplation: Does "Zion" in the bible always and everywhere mean only that hill in Jerusalem? (Which Zion, as you doubtless recall, will be the highest of mountains. Howzat work?)

In the New Testament, how many different ways is "temple" used? I can think of 5 right off the top of my head (ignoring references to pagan temples, 1)Christ's body -- "destroy this temple and I will raise it in 3 days", 2)the church, 3)the individual Christian's body, 4) the heavenly temple, of which the earthly is a copy, and 5) the physical building built by the Herods and destroyed by Titus' army.).

Does the "exceedingly great army" of Ezekiel 37:10 refer to the Israeli Defense Force?

15 posted on 09/04/2006 6:04:08 AM PDT by Lee N. Field
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