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To: xzins; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe; Ruy Dias de Bivar; Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Lord_Calvinus; ...
There appears to be a fixation on 2/3rds of Israel being destroyed.

" We report. You decide."

You are a Calvinist. Did God plan for those 6 million to be murdered by Fascism?

You're a smart fellow so I will explain the difference. Some others may not get it, but I know you will.

Theologians generally differentiate between the secret or decretive will of God and the revealed or prescriptive will of God. The former is know only to God while the latter can be known to all men through God's special revelation, e.g., the Bible.

God nowhere in the Bible predicted the slaughter of six million Jews at the hands of the Nazis. God nowhere predicted that the Second World War would occur in the 20th century (unless you are reading the Nostradamus version). So God nowhere tells us the reason why in His sovereign plan six million Jews died in the Nazi holocaust (other than the overarching fact of man's total degenerated sinfulness).

Now, one the other hand, your futurist dispensationalist friends turn to the very pages of the Bible to find a prediction and details about the futurist holocaust. It's right there in Zechariah 13 according to such dispensationalist giants as John Walvoord:

The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: ‘And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried’ (Zechariah 13:8, 9). According to Zechariah’s prophecy, two thirds of the children of Israel in the land will perish, but the one third that are left will be refined and be awaiting the deliverance of God at the second coming of Christ which is described in the next chapter of Zechariah (Israel in Prophecy).
Now, if one actually takes the time to read the context of Zech. 13:8,9 you will see that the two-thirds are cut off for idolatry and speaking words of false prophecy (vv. 2,3).

God is explicitly punishing Israel for these particular sins. And it is a great judgment.

So, putting two and two together, one sees that futurist Israel in the land must be a hotbed of idolatry and false prophecy and God, as punishment, kills off two-thirds of that generation, but brings the one-third "remnant" though it all as by fire.

The bottom line is that WWII holocaust slaughter is a matter of God's secret will. No one talked about six million dead by 1945 in the 1800s based on specific Bible verses, or why it might happen from the Bible.

But the futurist holocaust of two-thirds of Israel is, by definition, a matter of God's revealed will, otherwise we would not be talking about it before the fact.

See the difference?

431 posted on 09/05/2006 9:12:32 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Alamo-Girl
Thank you for your post.

I cannot pick out from it, though, your answer to the question, "Is God culpable for the murder of those 6 million Jews?"

What would you reply?

440 posted on 09/05/2006 9:27:49 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: topcat54; xzins; Alamo-Girl; Ruy Dias de Bivar; Dr. Eckleburg; Lord_Calvinus; blue-duncan; ...
Now, one the other hand, your futurist dispensationalist friends turn to the very pages of the Bible to find a prediction and details about the futurist holocaust. It's right there in Zechariah 13 according to such dispensationalist giants as John Walvoord:

Are you saying that Zechariah was a false prophet? When in history did 2/3 of the inhabitants of the land of Israel get destroyed and the 1/3 that was left come to salvation in Christ? I musta missed that one.

Or was there some "symbolic" fullfilment of that prophecy that we missed?

445 posted on 09/05/2006 9:47:45 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
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