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To: blue-duncan; Gamecock; HarleyD
We are not speaking now of over sight or accountability but the actual gifts themselves, (individual or institutional?).

Why do you wish to divorce the two? What compels you to do that other than a fondness for certain independent "preachers"?

Clearly the gifts are spoken of in terms of the church, the visible church that is. The letters where these ideas are developed by the apostle were written to real, "institutional" (I prefer the term "visible") churches. They were not written to individuals. In fact they were written to churches who had identifiable leaders responsible for oversight within the body. And the body by its leaders was to exercise control and authority over all the gifts.

So back to my question, why the need to distinguish "individual" from "institutional"?

66 posted on 08/29/2006 7:17:01 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; Gamecock; HarleyD
"So back to my question, why the need to distinguish "individual" from "institutional"?"

It goes back to the original question of the legitimacy of para church organizations. If the gifts are given to the individual then he can exercise them as he is lead and it is the audience who decides as lead by the Holy Spirit whether the "word" corresponds to the scriptures. Therefore para church organizations have a scriptural warrant to exercise the gifts given. If the gifts are given to the institutional church then it is the government of the church that decides if the "word" corresponds to the scriptures and can withdraw the gift.

If given to the institutional church then all of the independent ministries such as Ligonier, Vision America, independent seminaries who are teaching people to minister (contrary to the Eph. 4:8-14 and 2 Tim. 2:2 passages that say it is the church that prepares people for ministry), evangelist like Billy Graham, school ministries like Inter Varsity, Campus Crusade and service ministries like Navigators are all operating contrary to the Holy Spirit and without scriptural warrant for their ministries.

Whether their leaders are ordained by an institutional church or supported by the church is without moment since the organization itself is the ministry and the leader is preaching/teaching/evangelizing under the authority of the independent ministry's Board of Directors and constitution, not the church. The church can withdraw its credentials and it does not stop the independent ministry from operating. It may lose some support but it still continues.
67 posted on 08/29/2006 7:50:06 AM PDT by blue-duncan
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