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To: blue-duncan; alpha-8-25-02; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; P-Marlowe
I read his diatribe differently. He specifically states the message of Evangelists like ...

No doubt, but it is you that is attaching personalities to the piece, not the author. Perhaps you are looking to gain sympathy to your view by naming names. The author chose not to do that.

However, I would point out that the responsibility to preach the gospel is primarily directed to the church, not to individuals operating in a semi-autonomous fashion under various boards of directors or as independent agencies. Billy Graham, Campus Crusade and Inter Varisty Christian Fellowship are not churches to the best of my knowledge.

IMO, the most extreme forms of decisionalism and the semi-Pelagian error comes from these independent entities.

No where in the scriptures are children of God called "children of hell" and to do so, even for shock value, demeans and devalues the grace of God in the lives of those who have responded to the message by making them some sort of second class citizens in the family of God.

Whether the disciples of any modern evangelist are "children of God" or not is known to God alone. The burden, according to the author as well as the Scripture, is on the teacher, not the disciple. The effect may be unfortunate, especially for those involved as the recipients of false evangelistic techniques, but it is the teachers who are responsible before God.

In case you hadn't noticed, the verses you quoted from Paul had nothing to do with the message, or how the gospel was being preached. They had everything to do with the motivation of the preachers. Paul nowhere hold up "bad preaching" as something to be admired or copied. In fact he warns against "false gospels" esp. those that mix works and grace. Cf. Galatians 1.

It should come as no surprise in these parts that Reformed Christianity has always considered Arminian-induced decisionalism as a false expression of biblical Christianity.

44 posted on 08/28/2006 8:01:27 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; alpha-8-25-02; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; P-Marlowe

"No doubt, but it is you that is attaching personalities to the piece, not the author. Perhaps you are looking to gain sympathy to your view by naming names. The author chose not to do that."

Of course he chose not to do that. For him to give examples would cause him to have to explain how all of the converts under these ministries are going to hell as "children of hell" when they believe they have trusted Christ for their salvation.

"However, I would point out that the responsibility to preach the gospel is primarily directed to the church, not to individuals operating in a semi-autonomous fashion under various boards of directors or as independent agencies."

Paul says in Eph. 4:8-16, "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

Specific gifts were given to men to equip others to do the work of the ministry. Although we traditionally interpret these gifts as offices in the church they are to equip people to be able to do ministry, not just the church. Peter says, 1 Pe 4:10, "As every man hath received the gift, [even so] minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God."

To limit the preaching of the gospel to the institutional church would render the mission work of William Carey, Hudson Taylor, Dawson Trotman, the Auca Indian martyrs, the evangelism of George Whitfield all to no avail.

"The burden, according to the author as well as the Scripture, is on the teacher, not the disciple."

The burden is on the Holy Spirit to make effective the call of God. All that these people are doing is sowing the seed of the gospel. The soil and the harvest are up to God and God alone. Nothing and no one can snatch the seed away from those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world. The emphasis should be on the teaching after salvation; the maturing of the believer, not hindering those desiring to come into the kingdom.



46 posted on 08/28/2006 9:03:50 AM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: topcat54
However, I would point out that the responsibility to preach the gospel is primarily directed to the church, not to individuals operating in a semi-autonomous fashion under various boards of directors or as independent agencies. Billy Graham, Campus Crusade and Inter Varisty Christian Fellowship are not churches to the best of my knowledge.

Your argument sounds pretty good, but I'll like to point out that when Jesus gave the command there were no organized Churches. Though you could argue though that Jesus gave the command to disciples that would become leaders of a Greater Church that is far greater then Churches with walls and physically locations and physical congregations. Never the less Para-Church organizations would under this thinking would more fit in line with the definition of churches with walls, locations, and congregations.

62 posted on 08/28/2006 5:27:56 PM PDT by ReformedBeckite
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