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The Creeds Are Boring
Sursum Corda ^ | 8/21/2006 | jmahar

Posted on 08/21/2006 8:01:20 PM PDT by sionnsar

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To: bornacatholic

Typso ergo sum, right?

I see your point on the Eucharist.


21 posted on 08/22/2006 9:51:39 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Mother of a horde: it's not just an adventure - it's a job!)
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To: Tax-chick
From Septuagent, "Seventy and Rising" blog

Retired, but blogging.

Biography

Retired C of E Clergyman, one wife, two children, three grandchildren, and four coronary artery bypass grafts. Like Moses, he keeps on taking the tablets.

Born 1933, the year in which Hitler came to power.

Served in Royal Air Force for 20 years total.

Made Deacon (C of E) 1974, Priest 1975.

... So, if you have been baptised somewhere in the Anglican Communion you are probably OK because all agree that baptism with water and in the name of the Holy Trinity is valid no matter who carries it out. However, once you get beyond that it all goes a bit grey. Can a lay man or woman administer confirmation ? - or celebrate the Eucharist ? We know that lay men and women cannot bless, and we make provision for what they might say when called upon to do something like blessing. Deacons are not Deacons, Priests are not Priests, and Bishops are not Bishops - sorry about that Mr. Williams of Canterbury ! So really, since we have no valid ministry it must be very doubtful whether we are a proper church at all.

Differences of opinion over the Eucharist pale into insignificance when it dawns on you that we don't have a Eucharist about which to differ.

Now, Septuagent could be wrong here, as he is not a "professional" theologian, and it is a year or two since he was at college. But you will agree, there is something here that needs some serious "looking at". Until it is faced, and sorted, all other discussion falls to the ground.

*The gentleman was considering the implications of what I earlier posted

Few who are anglican Christians even know about such matters and those who do rarely face-up to the consequences of the reality.

At least this c of e minister does.

22 posted on 08/22/2006 10:07:06 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

You are talking about the ECUSA, not Anglicans. ANGLICAN Catholics are probably MORE Catholic than a lot of RCCers ...and I say that as a former RCCer.


23 posted on 08/22/2006 11:06:38 AM PDT by Alkhin (Thieving tyranny is all they offer.)
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To: bornacatholic
in the case of the truths of the second paragraph, the assent is based on faith in the Holy Spirit's assistance to the Magisterium and on the Catholic doctrine of the infallibility of the Magisterium (doctrines de fide tenenda).

Yeah, its all about the Magisterium isnt it, despite the Great Schism.

24 posted on 08/22/2006 11:08:13 AM PDT by Alkhin (Thieving tyranny is all they offer.)
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To: BlackElk

FYI


25 posted on 08/22/2006 12:28:21 PM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: Alkhin
Wherefore, strictly adhering, in this matter, to the decrees of the pontiffs, our predecessors, and confirming them most fully, and, as it were, renewing them by our authority, of our own initiative and certain knowledge, we pronounce and declare that ordinations carried out according to the Anglican rite have been, and are, absolutely null and utterly void


26 posted on 08/22/2006 12:30:40 PM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

Very interesting.


27 posted on 08/22/2006 12:31:02 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Mother of a horde: it's not just an adventure - it's a job!)
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To: Alkhin
I am sure you are well intended, sister. But, claiming one is catholic does not make one catholic. To be Catholic, one must maintain the Bonds of Unity in Worship, Doctrine, Authority.

Your community has severed all three Bonds and derives its putative authority from a community that had long previously lost Apostoilic Sucession, Ordination of Priests, Eucharist etc.

Your admirable home page has a link to a website where various claims are made concerning your community. It would be more convincing were the explanation to include links to any Ecumenical Document or Papal Encyclical referencing your community as being a church in union with Rome.

You are prolly not unaware there are myriad communites making claims similar to yours.

Prayerfully consider a return to true Apostolicity, Ordinations, Authority, Eucharist etc.

Come home to Rome, sister

28 posted on 08/22/2006 12:42:44 PM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
Nope nope nope. There is no home in the RCC - I was given no spiritual leadership, and only social obligations to participate in through the parishes I knew in my lifetime. Do not mistake me: I have no ambitions for priesthood, I am solidly in favor of only men in the priesthood. But do not let the ECUSA cloud the understanding of the history of the church. The ECUSA is not the entirety of Anglicanism.

Thank you though :D

29 posted on 08/22/2006 1:05:29 PM PDT by Alkhin (Thieving tyranny is all they offer.)
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To: bornacatholic
You are prolly not unaware there are myriad communites making claims similar to yours.

Indeed, you are correct. Thank you for checking out my page :D. Which is why I say that current events in the ECUSA and the disintegration of the ECUSA should not be allowed to cloud what is happening.

30 posted on 08/22/2006 1:08:46 PM PDT by Alkhin (Thieving tyranny is all they offer.)
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To: Alkhin
If you have children, you had a great spiritual responsibility.

Perhaps your priest was ordained by a Bishop in the line of Apostolic Sucession? Do you have any evidence he was?

31 posted on 08/22/2006 2:42:46 PM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: Lexinom

True Gospel music, like all church music worth listening to, is totally rooted in Scripture.


32 posted on 08/22/2006 3:09:47 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Peace In Our TimeĀ®)
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To: bornacatholic
Perhaps your priest was ordained by a Bishop in the line of Apostolic Sucession? Do you have any evidence he was?

But that's not the point -- the Anglicans can definitively demonstrate their Apostolic Succession. It's only the decree of Pope Leo XIII that rendered it null and void. I suppose their position would be that he could not put asunder a line of bishops and priests that God had instituted, to borrow from the wedding vows. I would say that history shows that he did indeed have that power as we've all watched the Anglican Communion wither on the vine. For the record I am a cradle Episcopalian, Confirmed into the Roman Catholic Church last spring. It seems that the better of an ANGLO Catholic I became, the more I wanted to be a REAL Catholic.

33 posted on 08/22/2006 3:24:08 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Peace In Our TimeĀ®)
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To: ichabod1

Dear ichabod1,

"only the decree of Pope Leo XIII that rendered it null and void."

Strictly speaking, the encyclical of Pope Leo XIII did not render Anglican orders invalid. Rather, it observed the objective reality of the invalidity of Anglican orders.


sitetest


34 posted on 08/22/2006 3:30:04 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: bornacatholic

My you have conviction in your Roman Catholicism, but you are here arguing with Anglo-Catholics. (The Evangelical Anglicans are simply being polite and sitting out the argument.) If you are correct, won't many simply follow the way of Cardinal Newman and cross the Tiber? It seems that your zeal and theological insight could be put to a much more effective use and be more strongly tested on some of the hard-core Calvinist (aka "Reformed") threads. Have you ever ventured over there at all?


35 posted on 08/22/2006 5:39:40 PM PDT by Huber ("Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of classes - our ancestors." - G K Chesterton)
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To: Huber
It seems that your zeal and theological insight could be put to a much more effective use and be more strongly tested on some of the hard-core Calvinist (aka "Reformed") threads. Have you ever ventured over there at all?

*Yes, and I am thinking of returning there again, perhaps during Lent

36 posted on 08/23/2006 5:15:37 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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