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To: Iscool
I would be glad to. The first thing you need to deal with is; not what tongues were, but have they stopped.

The verse given as statement of fact by the standard theology is 1 Cor 13:8-10.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

All of these items; Tongues, Prophecies, Knowledge were previously described in the preceding chapter, with instructions on their use. Therefore we have one point for their continuation. We have instructions for a church setting to continue the practice of speaking in tongues in specific parameters.

The second point in this progression is have they ceased? The standard protestant theology(SPT) states that they have based on Verses 8-10 above. However there is a condition to the practice having ceased. That condition is, when the perfect comes.

The SPT declares the perfect as the completed cannon of scripture. However, this statement violates SPT accepted practice of hermeneutics; i.e. scripture defines and clarifies scripture. Scripture does not declare what the perfection is. Therefore it is speculation that the perfection mentioned is the completed scriptures. No where in scripture is this clarified?

That makes the argument for ceasation of tongues SPT dogma and not theology.

Then we have the final point that is we are commanded to speak, pray in the Holy Spirit and seek spiritual gifts.

1 Cor 14: 1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.

Paul just said that prophecy would end, correct? Then why would he give us directions to eagerly desire it?

Simply because the perfect has not come yet.

Finally you have to deal with what tongues are:

If it is a known language, than why would Paul speaking to a congregation; that may have many different people able to speak different language, say he would not be understood except by God? This is a strong argument against tongues only being a known language.

Much more needs to be said on these topics, but the bottom line is: If God asked you to speak in tongues would you?

After attending Moody Bible Institute and getting a degree from William Tyndale College; I realized that the SPT was lacking in the very power of God they espoused.

Latter in my searching, I discovered that even our Catholic brothers and many other denominations were not so proud as to declare to God these dynamic gifts had ceased. They have charismatic congregations in the Catholic, Episcopal, Armenian, and Presbyterian churches.

I hope you can prayerfully consider these issues and read the word with clear eyes. Ask the Holy Spirit to give you his answer and not someone elses answer.

That is what this entire thread is about. Being led by His Spirit into all truth.
111 posted on 08/18/2006 5:46:32 AM PDT by Rhadaghast (Yeshua haMashiach hu Adonai Tsidkenu)
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To: Rhadaghast
I attended a Pentecostal Church for about 6 mo...And I sometimes played on a guitar during the service...I enjoy a church where the people get excited about the Lord...

Been to plenty of 'dead' Protestant churches...Most of which you need to bring an alarm clock so you know when it's time to go home...And of course at the Catholic church, you need to bring a pair of knee pads and a back support...

The first thing we need to realize is the the Corinthian church was like the F-troop of the church...Not because they were stupid, but because they were new, and because of that, they had trouble getting things together...

OK...So what are tongues in the bible sense???

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Now notice, these tongues could be uttered...

Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

So it's crystal clear, initially, tongues were a foreign language...

If it is a known language, than why would Paul speaking to a congregation; that may have many different people able to speak different language, say he would not be understood except by God?

Because God understand all languages...It's in the context...Besides, Paul say Do not speak in tongues because it does not edify the church...

So why were the Corinthians speaking in 'tongues'???

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

A sign for who

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Tongues are a sign...The signs are for the Jews...They require it...

This is one of the Pentecostal 'proof' texts that tongues are valid for use today...

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

You Pentecostals want us to believe that 'can not be uttered' actually means 'can not be understood by the human mind...But the fact is: can not be uttered means can not be 'spoken', and heard by someone else...

But let's take a closer look here...

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

You get that??? It's not the Holy Spirit that speaks in tongues...It's not a spiritual thing...It's an education thing...That's why Paul 'spoke in tongues more than you all'...It's your spirit doing the work...

And for these (and other) reasons, I avoid speaking in any language except English...

But consider this: Many Pentecostals speak in their 'unknown' tongues and they do it unscripturally...They do it without an interpreter...That's against the rules...But when you do this, since you don't know what you are saying, how do you know you aren't cursing at God???

Speaking in tongues is not the ONLY reason I refuse to attend a Pentecostal church...

113 posted on 08/18/2006 9:12:04 AM PDT by Iscool
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