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To: GipperGal
You raise some interesting points and I think many of us have questions about the way Israel responded to the initial Hezbollah provocation but this thing has to be put in context. Israel is not blameless and not everything it does is right, but it's far from being the primary source of trouble in this region. Some of your statements deserve a reply.

You say this:

I believe that Israel and Palestine should co-exist as two states side by side. I believe the Palestinians have just as much a right to live on the land that their ancestors have been living on since time immemorial.

So do I. So do a lot of people. But Hamas and Hezbollah don't see it that way. They want Israel eliminated. They don't want two states. They want one. And they want to run it. That's the reality. While the initial provocation was the kidnap of two soldiers, it was perpetrated by an organization dedicated to the destruction of Israel. An organization, moreover, which is in possession of thousands of rockets aimed at Israel. Factor in that the primary arms supplier to this organization is a country lead by a man who denies that the Holocaust happened and you have decreased the threshold for some form of military conflict considerably.

Do you believe that? If not, why not. Do you think all the Israelis really want to live in peace with the Palestinians?

Likely not. Almost certainly not. But I'm unaware of any Israeli equivalents of Hamas or Hezbollah dedicated to the destruction of their neighbors. Are there any? Or am I simply an ignorant victim of the American media?

I realize many Israelis probably don't like Palestinians, but how many have actually gone so far as to dedicate their existence to their destruction?

You never see or read anything about the fact that Israel is actually a theocracy. If you happen to be non-Jewish in Israel, you don't have the same rights.

Actually, it's not a full theocracy, if it ever was. The secularization of Israel has been an ongoing phenomenon for some time and the subject of considerable internal dispute. It has accelerated considerably in the past couple of decades. Elements of Israeli secular law are certainly based on Jewish religious law but the same came be said of western countries, I think (although trying as we are to jettison most of it).

Nevertheless, even if Israel is a theocracy, so what? Every country has the right to form it's own laws and standards and Israel is after all, a Jewish state. Provided it is committed to living in peace with its non-theocratic neighbors and its theocracy respects the basic human rights of all its citizens, I have no problem with a theocracy. Allowing the Jewish people to build the laws of their own land in harmony with their own faith seems a perfectly reasonable course of action to me.

Here's the acid test for me, regarding the relative sensibilities of the various protagonists in this region.

Israel has been in possession of weapons of mass destruction for some time now. Despite your assertions that Israel is pushing an agenda formed mainly by radical rabbis who hate the Palestinians and Lebanese, I've seen no signs that these weapons are likely to be used on said Palestinians or Lebanese (or Egyptians etc.,).

If the likes of Hezbollah or Hamas (or Iran or Syria) ever find themselves in possession of such weapons, do you think we (or the Israelis) will be able to make the reciprocal statement with quite the same degree of assurance?

Which would cause you to lose more sleep? A nuclear Israel or a nuclear Hezbollah/Iran?

Answer honestly.

61 posted on 08/16/2006 6:24:01 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow; robby; sitetest; BlackElk
Consider the parallels twixt the weimar republic and the nazi's acquisition of power and current Lebanon and Hizbollah acquiring power there.

Who ended up controlling Germany? Who is gonna end=up controlling Lebanon? Hizollah is NOT going to give-up their weapons and the French, the FRENCH? - are gonna be the peace protectors for the UN.

The FRENCH? The UNITED NATIONS?

Israel is paying the price for electing a liberal lawyer

88 posted on 08/16/2006 10:17:12 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: marshmallow; NYer
Thank you for your post. I apologize for not copying you on my post #98. I think it answers some of the questions you pose.

Israel has been in possession of weapons of mass destruction for some time now. Despite your assertions that Israel is pushing an agenda formed mainly by radical rabbis who hate the Palestinians and Lebanese, I've seen no signs that these weapons are likely to be used on said Palestinians or Lebanese (or Egyptians etc.,).

I agree that Israel does not intend to detonate weapons of mass destruction. Why would they? They don't want to destroy the land in the middle east. They're not crazy. The guy in charge of Iran, yes. I think we can safely say he's coo-coo for coco puffs.

However, I think they've had their eyes on part of southern Lebanon for decades. Specifically the area from the Litani river southward -- which is the area of biblical Galilee. It's about water supply. Lebanon is the only country in the middle east with a surplus of natural springs. My proof for this? Read Moshe Sharett's diaries -- particularly his entry for May 16, 1954, in which he writes about Ben Gurion's idea of setting up a Maronite puppet state in Lebanon and then immediately the area south of the Litani. Then take a look at Israel's actions throughout the years in Lebanon. For example, it might be nice if they surrendered all the maps to all of the land mines they left in Southern Lebanon after their withdrawal in 2000. The UN has repeatedly asked them to. Here's some more ways they could win friends among their neighbors. Siniora's words are not those of a man who wants to make war with Israel. They are the words of a man who's country is being destroyed and is begging for help so that his people can live in peace.

102 posted on 08/17/2006 2:25:14 AM PDT by GipperGal
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