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To: ScubieNuc
Since you seem to want to hijack this thread into a 7th Day Adventists dream of promoting Sabath worship, let me ask you a few questions....

The article, all 7K+ words, is about getting Christianity back to being biblical. Keeping Sunday sacred is not Biblical. Dont' take my word for it

Did Christ acquire a sinful nature?

The more appropriate question is "Did Christ sin". Christ never sinned and His death paid the penalty for sin. Sin remains and is defined by the transgression of the law.

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savor.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Is it possible for anyone to have the assurance of salvation?

What scripture do you base this question on?

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Why is it that nine of the commandments are reiterated in the New Testament, but the "duty" to keep the seventh day as Sabath is not mentioned ONCE?

Not raping children isn't mentioned in the NT? At any rate, Jesus told us how to keep the Sabbath, but the Sabbath remains.

Mar 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

When the New Testament lists sins, why is Sabath breaking absent?

It isn't. It is included in broader terms.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The Sabbath is the foremost thing we can do to show God we love Him.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Why does Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30 say that the seal of God is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and not the keeping of the Sabath?

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The article plainly states that scripture cannot contradict scripture. The Holy Spirit cannot lead a man to purposefully sin. Are you saying the indwelling of the Holy Spirit licenses sin?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Do you keep the Sabath by observing from sunset to sunset? No burden carried? No fire kindled (Would that include fire in the engine of your car)? And no cooking?

Jesus taught us that is is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. What I do to keep the Sabbath holy is not up for debate nor is it any of your business.

Luk 6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days Luk 6:3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was hungry, and they which were with him; Luk 6:4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone? Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Luk 6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered. Luk 6:7 And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him. Luk 6:8 But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. Luk 6:10 And looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Do you then enforce these violations by death? (Numbers 15)

Jesus paid the penalty for sin with His perfect, once for all sacrifice. It is appointed that all men die once, the judgement will determine who gets resurrected and who dies for eternity.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

These are just a few of the many conflicts that I can post on the conflict of trying to put Sabath Keeping as a requirement for salvation. Please post your answers with Scriptural references.

The only conflict here is the supposed "bible" faiths who obey the pope of Rome by duly keeping the man created Sunday sabbath.

"I have repeatedly offered $1000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. Priest Thomas Enright, CSSR, President of Redemptorist College, Kansas City, Missouri, in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, and printed in the American Sentinel, June 1883, a New York Roman Catholic journal. Sincerely

98 posted on 08/15/2006 6:54:02 AM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: kerryusama04; Gamecock

Thank you, Kerryusama04, for showing how preposterous Sola Scriptura is as a doctrine.

The Catholic Church insists that Prima Sabbati means "first of the week." Kerry insists that it doesn't. And he can make what seems like a bold promise that no-one can prove that the bible makes Sunday the new Sabbath, because if anyone does point out to him where it does, he just insists, "That's not what that REEEEALLY means!"

It doesn't matter how blunt and obvious the bible states something. Not only did Jesus say, "truly, truly, I tell you this: Unless you eat of my flesh, and drink of my blood, you shall have no life within you," but it lost him most of his disciples, because they all knew what he meant. Just as the Church has held since three hundred years before the Church selected which books comprised the infallible scripture. And yet, Protestants, despite this very plainly worded, bluntly stated, passage insists, "That's not what he means!"

You insist, "That's not what he means," when he called Peter the Rock (Cephas, not Petrus, as the bible also plainly points out) apon which the Chuch would be built.

You insist, "That's not what he means," pretty much whenever the bible says something you don't like, and yet you create threads like this one to conjure out of thin air false assertions that the bible contains the doctrine of sola scriptura, despite the fact that the gospel was preached for decades before anyone wrote it down.

And, thus, Jesus, foreseeing the hardness of the human heart, gave, through the workings of the Holy Spirit, the gift of authority to one man, Peter, and to his disciples, to settle such disagreements.

So you, Gamecock, and you, Kerryusama, believe what you want to believe, and imagine that in spite of your disagreement, somehow you each have the charism of being correct in your intepretation of the bible.

Because you have a common enemy, you'll ignore these differences. But Gamecock, pay attention to what Kerryusama's entire argument is, as revealed in other threads: that your Sunday worship is REALLY teh work of pagans who tricked the Christian church into worshipping their demonic, pagan gods.


115 posted on 08/15/2006 11:00:01 AM PDT by dangus
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To: kerryusama04
"Did Christ acquire a sinful nature?"

While the basis of your answer is correct, you avoided answering my question. Maybe you are not a SDA, but in the official SDA "Questions on Doctrine" states, "Christ took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature...Christ took human nature and bore the infirmities and degeneracy of the race. He took our nature and its deteriorating condition." (pp. 654-656) Of course if this was true, there could have been no sinless sacrifice, no hope for sinners, no Savior.

"Is it possible for anyone to have the assurance of salvation?"

I noticed no clear answer. SDA's believe in no assurance, because failure to "keep the law" is loss of salvation. This is salvation by works which clearly violates Eph 2:8&9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Plus it ignores verses such as...1John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Either Christ is sufficient or He needs our help. Which by the way, your "works salvation" is a very Catholic view.

"Why is it that nine of the commandments are reiterated in the New Testament, but the "duty" to keep the seventh day as Sabath is not mentioned ONCE? "

I see you avoided the answer. Let me show you...

1)To worship God only (No less then 50 times)
2)Idolitry (condemned 12 times)
3)Profanity (condemned 4 times)
4)Keep the Sabbath..........NO TIMES
5)Honoring parents (taught 6 times)
6)Murder (condemned 6 times)
7)Adultery (condemned 12 times)
8)Theft (condemned 4 times)
9)False witness (condemned 4 times)
10)Covetousness (condemned 9 times)

Where is the NT verse that states failing to keep the Sabbath is a sin, or we are commanded to keep the Sabbath?

"When the New Testament lists sins, why is Sabath breaking absent?"

Your responses are vague and don't answer the question.

It isn't. It is included in broader terms."

Again, that's like the Catholics claiming Mary has special powers because of the "broader terms" of "blessed." You have alot more in common with the Catholics than you realize.

"The Sabbath is the foremost thing we can do to show God we love Him."

Where is your Scriptural support for that line?

Check out these listings of sins, and not ONCE is Sabbath breaking mentioned. Mark 7:21-22; Romans 1:29-32; Galatians 5:19-21; 2 Timothy 3:1-4.

"Why does Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30 say that the seal of God is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and not the keeping of the Sabath? "

Your response does not answer my question.

"Are you saying the indwelling of the Holy Spirit licenses sin?"

Instead you are trying to redirect with some wild goose question. Tell you what...you post Scriptural support for keeping the Sabbath is the seal of God on His people, and I'll follow your wild goose redirection.

"Do you keep the Sabath by observing from sunset to sunset? No burden carried? No fire kindled (Would that include fire in the engine of your car)? And no cooking?"

You responded with..."What I do to keep the Sabbath holy is not up for debate nor is it any of your business."

I believe you don't face up to this question because you know that you fail to keep the Sabbath by the standards laid down in Levidicus (sunset to sunset), Jerimiah (no burden carried), and Exodus (fire and cooking). If you fail to keep one of the Commands you fail them all.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

"Do you then enforce these violations by death? (Numbers 15) "

Your answer sidesteps the punishment for failing to observe the Sabbath. Read Numbers 15:33-40. If Sabbath keeping is as important today as it was in Moses' day, then the same rules of inforcement would apply. If not, then where in the NT does Jesus recind the punishment of Sabbath keeping?

"I have repeatedly offered $1000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. "

I am not interested in such an offer. I believe you are misfocused on when. I recommend reading Jesus's answer to the woman at the well. She was looking for when, where, and how to worship God, and Jesus mentions nothing about a day or place.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

You can worship God in spirit and in truth on anyday of the week.

Sincerely
139 posted on 08/15/2006 5:52:35 PM PDT by ScubieNuc
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