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To: ScubieNuc
Saying the Sabbath Commandment is not repeated does not mean it was rescinded. Here is a complete listing of the scriptures containing the word sabbath. Your ascetion that the Sabbath command is not repeated does not represent the reality of Jesus clarifying what one can do on the Sabbath. I challenge you to find the entry that cancels the commandment.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were hungry, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.

Mar 1:21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

Mar 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Mar 3:2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

Mar 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

Mar 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luk 4:31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.

Luk 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.

Luk 6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days

Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Luk 6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.

Luk 6:7 And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.

Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

Luk 13:10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

Luk 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Luk 14:1 And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.

Luk 14:3 And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?

Luk 14:5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?

Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Joh 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

Joh 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Joh 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. Joh 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Joh 9:14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

Joh 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was a high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Act 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures,

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

While the basis of your answer is correct, you avoided answering my question. Maybe you are not a SDA, but in the official SDA "Questions on Doctrine" states, "Christ took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature...Christ took human nature and bore the infirmities and degeneracy of the race. He took our nature and its deteriorating condition." (pp. 654-656) Of course if this was true, there could have been no sinless sacrifice, no hope for sinners, no Savior.

From "Seventh Day Adventists Believe... A Biblical Excposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines copy 1988 page 46-47:

"He (Jesus) was made in the "likeness of human flesh" or "sinful human nature" (cf Rom. 8:3). This in no way indicates that Jesus Christ was sinful, or participated in sinful acts or thoughts. Though made in the form or likeness of sinful flesh, He was sinless and His sinlessness is beyond questioning."

I noticed no clear answer. SDA's believe in no assurance, because failure to "keep the law" is loss of salvation. This is salvation by works which clearly violates Eph 2:8&9

From the SDA doctrine page:

10. Experience of Salvation: In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)
No sign of works based salvation here...

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Plus it ignores verses such as...1John 5:13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Either Christ is sufficient or He needs our help. Which by the way, your "works salvation" is a very Catholic view.

Catholicism is not 100% wrong. That faith is very works based, but the Protestant notion of grace alone leads to abominable doctrines like, "once saved always saved". To elaborate, not stealing for your entire life will never lead to faithin Jesus Christ. Faith in Jesus Christ will most assuredly lead one to not steal, thus one's works are an outward side of their faith. The gift of salvation is free, but man will be judged by his works:

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Mat 15:6 and in no way he honors his father or his mother. And you voided the commandment of God by your tradition. Mat 15:7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, Mat 15:8 "This people draws near to Me with their mouth, and honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. Mat 15:9 But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Jesus is saying right here that running around saying Jesus, Jesus, yet continuing in sin is folly.

Where is the NT verse that states failing to keep the Sabbath is a sin, or we are commanded to keep the Sabbath?

My Bible goes from Genesis to Revelation. But, while this NT scripture does not say the Sabbath specifically, I think you can get the picture. Besides, if Christ would have declared the Sabbath null and void, He would not have been Christ but a false prophet.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Who is this remnant in the end time keeping the Commandments and having the Testimony of Jesus Christ?

me:"The Sabbath is the foremost thing we can do to show God we love Him." you:Where is your Scriptural support for that line?

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I regard taking a day out of the week to honor the Creator of the universe in the way He commanded us to do so rather hightly. There are only 2 Commandments out of the 10 that tell us to do something rather than to NOT do something. Both of them honor creation.

I believe you don't face up to this question because you know that you fail to keep the Sabbath by the standards laid down in Levidicus (sunset to sunset), Jerimiah (no burden carried), and Exodus (fire and cooking). If you fail to keep one of the Commands you fail them all.

I am a sinner, but you ask such questions so as to attack me. It happens almost every time I debate the Sabbath. The sunday keepers always want to license their wilfull sin by showing the sins of others. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Of course you can and should worship God every day of the week. But what is the problem with giving Him the day He commanded? Please, tell me why you guys are so incredibly adamant about not keeping the Sabbath? Do you actually believe in a Judgement and a Resurrection? What standard will Jesus use to Judge us if not the perfect Law of God?

152 posted on 08/15/2006 7:45:37 PM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: kerryusama04
"Saying the Sabbath Commandment is not repeated does not mean it was rescinded.... I challenge you to find the entry that cancels the commandment."

I believe you miss the points...

1)The Sabbath is part of the Mosiac Law given to the Children of Israel.
2) There is no command in the entire New Testament commanding observation of the Sabbath, even when there is commands to observe ALL the other 10 commandments.
3) Of All the sins lists in the New Testament, Sabbath breaking is never ONCE mentioned as a sin.
4)Jesus did not teach anybody to keep the Sabbath.

While you are correct that there is no verse which says, "Following the observation of the Sabbath is hereby recinded." You fail to recognize the weight of the evidence against the Sabbath keeping ideas. I could also say that the Bible has no verse that says, "it is wrong to sprinkle a new born baby with demineralized water during baptism." Just because it is not written, doesn't mean that the idea lacks overall support.

It's interesting to me that you posted all the verses which mention the word Sabbath. I could post all the verses I find that mention the word sacrifice, but that doesn't mean we are still to offer up burnt offerings. The very last verse you posted caught my eye. I'll repost it with it's preceding verses...

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.


What is Paul talking about here? Gentiles were in "uncircumcision" and the "handwritting of ordinances" of the Jews was against and contrary to them. But Christ took these out of the way, "nailing them to the cross." What are these ordinances? Moral laws such as Murder, or ceremonial laws such as circumcision, holydays, sabbaths? Clearly verse 16 shows it to be ceremonial laws.

This goes along with what Paul wrote in Romans.

Rom 6:14, 15 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


"No sign of works based salvation here..."

So answer this question for me...Can you lose your salvation?

"The gift of salvation is free, but man will be judged by his works:"

Close, but not quite accurate...

1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Cr 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1Cr 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Cr 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Cr 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Notice our salvation (foundation) is in Christ. Our works will be judged, and we will recieve reward or loss of reward, but our salvation (foundation) is not affected by the trying of our works. It is the difference between Justification and Sanctification. See Here for a more thorough breakdown.

"I am a sinner, but you ask such questions so as to attack me. It happens almost every time I debate the Sabbath. The sunday keepers always want to license their wilfull sin by showing the sins of others. Two wrongs do not make a right."

I too am a sinner. I am not attacking you but your doctrine, which I believe to be false. The point I was making is that you will NEVER fulfill the law. You are hanging onto a legalism of maintaining your salvation through your works. I, nor any other person I know, who believes in "Eternal Security", believes that you have a license to sin.

"What standard will Jesus use to Judge us if not the perfect Law of God?"

I know this is kind of long, but read it with a sincere heart. No man/woman fulfills the law. Christ did. He suffered the punishment that was not for him. He has the power to forgive (pardon) our punishment for sin. When we accept that by faith, the foundation in Christ is laid.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:21 ¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 3:26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Rom 3:27 ¶ Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Sincerely
159 posted on 08/15/2006 9:53:08 PM PDT by ScubieNuc
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