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To: Quix; topcat54; jude24
Doesn't alter the basic truths a gnat's fart's worth.

For this, some of my opponents would slam the Abuse Button on me.

But, I'm not them.

Some dispensationalists are idiot racists.

Um... I just quoted pretty much every major, best-selling Dispensationalist pastor of the latter 20th Century (more quotes where those came from, if need be).

Are they all just "idiot racists" who have got Dispensationalism all wrong, all along... or do you think there might be a wee bit of a problem with the Theology itself?

Just asking. You can choose to actually think about it, or not.

's a free country.

331 posted on 08/24/2006 10:12:52 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty -- Luke 17:10)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

OK. Excuzzzzeeeeeee me.

a gnat's flatulance's worth.


333 posted on 08/24/2006 10:22:38 AM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; topcat54
Many thanks for your continued excellent posts which are filled with Biblical understanding and the mercy of Christ risen.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." -- Galatians 3:28

How much clearer does it have to be?

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. " -- John 14:6

334 posted on 08/24/2006 10:38:52 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; Quix; jude24
What should evangelicals make of Christian Zionism and its claim to biblical certitude regarding Israel? Christian Zionists make much of Romans 9-11 suggesting, wrongly in the opinion of the author, that the promises of future spiritual revival are synonymous with physical restoration. It is rare, however to find any analysis among Christian Zionists of Hebrews 8:13, which, it is suggested, provides not only the hermeneutical key to unravelling the Christian Zionist case, but also to explaining Paul’s vehemence at the Judaizing tendencies corrupting the church in Galatia.
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. (Hebrews 8:13)
It may be argued that it should be impossible for Christians to view claims and promises made to the Jews by God in the Hebrew scriptures without now reading them through the cross and its irrevocable consequences for the Jews. Now we find that it is Gentiles (and Jews who believe in Jesus) who are declared to be the true children of Abraham and Sarah. Jews outside the new covenant of grace have, through the cross, and because of their rejection of Jesus, become the children of Hagar. (Galatians 4:21-26). This is no excuse for arrogance or worse. With sensitivity and compassion we must rightly share our faith in Jesus praying that our Jewish friends find their Messiah and complete their faith. However, any suggestion that the Jewish people continue to have a special status or exclusive rights to the lands of the Middle East, as advocated by Christian Zionists is surely, in the words of John Stott, ‘biblical anathema.’[78]

1. The Old Testament promises about the Jews’ return to the land are comforted by promises of the Jews’ return to the Lord. It is hard to see how that secular, unbelieving State of Israel can possibly be a fulfillment of those prophecies.

2. The Old Testament promises about the land are nowhere repeated in the New Testament. The prophecy of Romans 11 is a prophecy that many Jews will turn to Christ, but the land is not mentioned nor is Israel mentioned as a political entity...

3. The Old Testament promises according to the apostles are fulfilled in Christ and the international community of Christ. The New Testament authors apply the promise of Abraham’s seed to Jesus Christ. And they apply to Jesus Christ the promise of the land and all the land which is inherited, the land flowing with milk and honey, because it is in him that our hunger is satisfied and out thirst quenched. A return to Jewish nationalism would seem incompatible with this New Testament perspective of the international community of Jesus.[79]

Essentially, Christian Zionists are viewing biblical prophecy through the wrong end of the telescope. In doing so, they distort the Bible and marginalise the universal imperative of the gospel which is of equal grace and common justice. It may therefore be argued that it is actually Christian Zionists who are anti-Semitic through their partisan support for Israel’s apartheid regime, their antipathy toward Arabs, and their almost pathological conviction which makes them ‘anxious for Armageddon’.[80] In so doing, they have, whether intentionally or otherwise, legitimised the oppression of Palestinian Christians in the name of God.

Dispensationalism and Christian Zionism


335 posted on 08/24/2006 10:45:28 AM PDT by topcat54
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