Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

DISPENSATIONALIST "CHRISTIAN" ZIONISM -- Is there now "neither Jew nor Gentile", or not?
KennethGentry.Com, "Dispensational Distortions" ^ | 2004 | Kenneth Gentry (and OP)

Posted on 08/10/2006 12:22:56 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian

A Young Fool encounters Foolishness

Once upon a time, I was but a wee child in Reformed Theology, taking my first baby-steps into the beautiful Cathedral of Calvinism as a young Debater for Jerry Falwell's world-beating Liberty Debate Team (Our Creed: "Defeat Harvard. Defeat Navy. Defeat American Catholic. Defeat everyone. Crush them all, every time, no exceptions. Win every single National Championship, every year.... because as long as we Calvinists keep winning, Jerry won't excommunicate us for being Calvinists!!".)

Since a Debater is always expected to be able to immediately argue either side of any given question, I spent a lot of time in the local used book-store picking up various books on philosophy and theology and politics and economics... anything I could get my dirt-poor hands on for $2 or $3 dollars a copy. Anything to familiarize myself with multiple intellectual perspectives and multiple modes of argumentation.

Now, in the course of my researches, I happened across a little book entitled War Cycles, Peace Cycles by Richard Kelly Hoskins of Lynchburg, Virginia, regarding the short and long-term economic effects of Monetary Expansions and Contractions in the context of fractional-reserve lending. Hoskins was by no means an uneducated fellow (a capable Financial Advisor and Econometricist, some of his works are still occasionally cited today), but I was singularly disturbed by several passages in which he seemed to suggest a Racial component to Fractional-Reserve Lending (which he called "the Babylon System") versus his contrary suggestions for Joint-Venture Lending.

One passage which stood out in my mind read as follows:

The further I read, the more it was apparent to me that Hoskins regarded "Israel" as The White Race, the Adamic Race descended through Abraham, and that all Non-Whites were considered to him to be zuwr "strangers": Pagans at worst, "Samaritan" Christians at best... but never "Israel".

And so, being the young fool that I was, I did what any young fool would do... I looked Dick Hoskins up in the Lynchburg, Virginia phone book, and called him at his house.

I asked him what he would make of my spiritual position -- a Confessing Christian by Faith, mostly Prussian German by Ethnicity, but with a little 1/16 smidgen of Sioux Nation mixed in 3 or 4 generations back on my mother's side.

Hoskins informed me, quite cordially and without any rancor whatsoever, that God considered me to be a mixed-breed Bastard and that "A Bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD." (Deuteronomy 23:2) He advised me to marry "one of my own kind".

Well, I decided at that point (even before I knew him to be the godfather of the "Phinehas Priesthood", the most violent expression of the Christian Identity movement) that even if he was a good money-runner, Dick Hoskins' theology was a barrel full of wet, smelly, foolish Scheißdreck, with which I would have no truck whatsoever. The Christian Creed is this: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28, KJV).

Unfortunately, however, "Christian Identity" (derived not from pagan Nazism but rather from its bastard godfather, British Israelism) is not the only theology which Racially divides the Body of Christ into Jew and Gentile, "Israel" and "Not-Israel", Blood and Blood-lines.

Dispensational Zionist Foolishness

The future dispensational kingdom involves a racial prejudice favoring the Jews above even saved Gentiles during the millennium. As such it re-introduces the distinction between Jew and Gentile and replaces Faith with Race as a basis for divine favor. Consider the following citations from leading dispensationalists: (DISPENSATIONAL DISTORTIONS PART TWO, Redemptive History Distortions ~~ Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., Th.D.)

However, with the establishment of the New Testament phase of the Church, the distinction between Jew and Gentile has been abolished. This was the whole point of Peter's vision of the sheet filled with unclean animals in Acts 10: "What God has called clean, let no man call unclean." Thus, there is no separate Jewish program exalting them over saved Gentiles. THE CHURCH, which includes Jew and Gentile in one body, is the fruition and culmination of God's promises to the Jews. In evidence of this, we should note that Christians are called by distinctively Jewish names in the New Testament. "He is a Jew, which is one inwardly" (Rom. 2:29). Christians are called "the circumcision" (Phil. 3:3), "the children" and "the seed of Abraham" (Gal. 3:7, 29), the "Jerusalem which is above" and the "children of the promise" (Gal. 4:24-29). In fact, Christians compose "the Israel of God" for we are a "new creature" regarding which "circumcision availeth nothing" (Gal. 6:16).

Comparing Foolishness with Foolishness

In closing, I ask only (according to the Hebrew logical-interpretive method of "how much the more?")... if the heretical British-Israel/Christian-Identity Racialists pervert True Christianity by dividing the People of God along Racial lines, then how much the more do Dispensationalists also pervert the Word of God and divide the People of God along equally Racialist lines?

Consider the following:



Those aren't Quotations from Richard Kelly Hoskins... granted, they may sound like Christian Identity quotations, but they aren't.

These are nothing less than direct quotations from the leading lights of Dispensationalism in America -- Ryrie, Pentecost, Walvoord, Hoyt, Hunt, Thomas Ice. (I could've quoted Hagee, I suppose, but the man is absolutely freakin' nutbar).

All that I did was to replace "Israel" with "The White Race", and replace "Gentiles" with "Non-Whites".
Does Dispensationalist "theology" destroy the Racial equality of the Body of Christ? What you see is what you get.

God Damn all Racial Theology.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Judaism; Mainline Protestant; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 801-820821-840841-860 ... 1,041-1,060 next last
To: 1000 silverlings
No, Jesus bound him at the cross, before even, Luke 10:18. Even when he is loosed for a little while, he's on God's leash.

Satan was always under limits by God (Job 1-2).

Still God does give him power over that which he does rule (within limits)

821 posted on 09/08/2006 1:49:33 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 809 | View Replies]

To: 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; fortheDeclaration
1 John 5:19 - We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Obviously, not all of of us know.

JM
822 posted on 09/08/2006 1:51:52 PM PDT by JohnnyM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 820 | View Replies]

To: JohnnyM
"Obviously, not all of of us know"

Obviously, not all of us can speak English.

JM
823 posted on 09/08/2006 1:52:44 PM PDT by JohnnyM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 822 | View Replies]

To: 1000 silverlings
he is not ruling anything on earth now This is incomprehensible. He rules me, He rules Dr. Eckleburg, He rules every believer, or does He? Who is your ruler?

We were talking in the context of the world's systems, not Christians, who have left the world system and been born again into the Kingdom of God.

But, even a Christian can turn himself back to Satan, even though he can never lose his salvation

Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world'(2Tim.4:10)

824 posted on 09/08/2006 1:53:40 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 820 | View Replies]

To: JohnnyM

1 John 5:18


825 posted on 09/08/2006 1:55:11 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (why is it so difficult to understand?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 823 | View Replies]

To: 1000 silverlings
we are talking about the world, not believers.

As believers Christ is our King. The world does not yet recognize Him as King.

JM
826 posted on 09/08/2006 1:57:20 PM PDT by JohnnyM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 825 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; topcat54; HarleyD

Well then we agree that Christians are in the Kingdom, Jesus is ruling it and us.


827 posted on 09/08/2006 1:58:27 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (why is it so difficult to understand?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 824 | View Replies]

To: JohnnyM

It doesn't matter if they recognize Him or not, He still rules the world.


828 posted on 09/08/2006 2:01:10 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (why is it so difficult to understand?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 826 | View Replies]

To: 1000 silverlings
You better tell John that then:

"..the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

JM
829 posted on 09/08/2006 2:04:56 PM PDT by JohnnyM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 828 | View Replies]

To: 1000 silverlings; fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; topcat54; HarleyD
His Kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36)

JM
830 posted on 09/08/2006 2:07:01 PM PDT by JohnnyM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 827 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; topcat54; HarleyD
If you are trying to say that the Kingdom of Heaven is not the Kingdom of God, then scripture does not support it.

.Matthew 13:24-38, tells of the Kingdom of Heaven, yet the children of that, the good seed, live in the world first. Verse 41:

The Son of Man ....shall gather out of His kingdom, all things that offend, and the tares do not go to Heaven...

The earth is His kingdom.

831 posted on 09/08/2006 2:17:11 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (why is it so difficult to understand?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 824 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; topcat54; HarleyD
To be in God's Presence is to be in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is both immediate and future. When Christ came to earth the first time, the kingdom drew near,( Luke 10:11) and shortly thereafter, on hearing the gospel preached, people were rushing to get into it.(Matthew 21:31)

In some sense, Christ is the Kingdom, and all in Him are already in the kingdom. When He comes again, then those future events will unfold, but He is at once, both present and future, and so is His kingdom.

832 posted on 09/08/2006 2:53:38 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (why is it so difficult to understand?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 824 | View Replies]

To: Quix
Israel--the descendants of Jacob--being front and center in this END TIMES era:


Thanks Quix I have been battling with this for about 6 months now. I am just jumping in here, I have not read any of this thread just your ping. So no flame wars, please.

Hubby and I have had many mental fencing days over this. He believe that Israel and the Jews are the chosen ones above us (and this is what I have believed all my life until about 6 months ago). I am still on the fence and can argue both sides but am leaning to disagree that The Cross changed all that and we are All The Church and the same, after The Cross.

I believe it all depends on what one believes about what happened on The Cross. The Cross is the center of the bible and both OT and NT hinge on what/when/where/why/how you believe on the event of The Cross.

Expecting to be gathered up in the air any second now!

I might not get back tonight (have to go to WT thread) but will as ASAP
LUB
Blessings

The only reasonable answer I come up with is and this isn't an answer is...

1 Timothy 1: 3As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,

4nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.


Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
833 posted on 09/08/2006 7:30:28 PM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (John 16:...33In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 775 | View Replies]

To: DAVEY CROCKETT

Certainly those are excellent Scriptures re any Scriptural contentions.

I still think that the major thing about The descendants of Jacob is that they are A FULFILLMENT OF GOD'S PROMISE, COMMITMENT, COVENANT to HIS BUDDY, HIS FRIEND, Abraham.

Further, thaty God is using them as a super illustration to mankind and then to ALL Creation of many things about God's priorities, Majesty, Grandeur, Grace.

Certainly He will use the Church similarly but The Church is still "merely" GRAFTED IN. We were not the original main branch.

Just as God forgives us our shortcomings as we persist in our faith in Him; confess, repent etc. . . . God is able to forgive Jacob's descendants according to HIS SCRIPT in HIS TIME.

Doesn't mean an alternate route to salvation though I don't know how to persuade the naysayers of that. It's just a fact. Just because we don't understand the mediculous.

Certainly we are all still equal before The Cross.

Certainly The Cross is still the fulcrum of all history and all creation.

But God is a long way from being done using the descendants as an object lesson; an illustration; an embellishment of His Glory. An abundance of yet-to-be-fulfilled Scriptural prophecies make that super clear.

LUB,


834 posted on 09/08/2006 8:51:12 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 833 | View Replies]

To: DAVEY CROCKETT
The Cross changed all that and we are All The Church and the same, after The Cross. I believe it all depends on what one believes about what happened on The Cross. The Cross is the center of the bible and both OT and NT hinge on what/when/where/why/how you believe on the event of The Cross.

AMEN!

All history leads up to the cross and all history flows from the cross. From before the foundation of the world God ordained Christ to die and be resurrected from that cross for your salvation and mine.

And your tag proves it. 8~)

835 posted on 09/09/2006 12:15:15 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 833 | View Replies]

To: Quix; topcat54; DAVEY CROCKETT; 1000 silverlings; HarleyD; Kitty Mittens; TomSmedley; Gamecock
Certainly He will use the Church similarly but The Church is still "merely" GRAFTED IN. We were not the original main branch.

Merely? I'll quote from topcat's 713...

"Again, the language does not support limiting this to mere "blessings". The believing Jews and gentiles have received all the promises made to Israel. Because, as Paul tells us in Gal. 3, the promises were really made with the Seed, Jesus Christ. "Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, 'And to seeds,' as of many, but as of one, 'And to your Seed,' who is Christ" (v. 16). All those who are "in Christ" are part of Abraham's true offspring and thus received the promises and blessings..."

Here's an excellent link...

TO THE JEW FIRST: A REFORMED PERSPECTIVE by Dr. Richard L. Pratt, Jr.

836 posted on 09/09/2006 12:50:18 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 834 | View Replies]

To: Quix; topcat54; DAVEY CROCKETT; 1000 silverlings; HarleyD; Kitty Mittens; TomSmedley; Gamecock; ...
And from the same website, a wonderful oldie but Godly...

WHY I BELIEVE IN GOD by Cornelius Van Til

837 posted on 09/09/2006 1:17:41 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 836 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg; Quix; topcat54; DAVEY CROCKETT; 1000 silverlings; Kitty Mittens; TomSmedley; ...
Some of the words of that prayer were to this effect: "Lord, convert me, that I may be converted." Unmindful of the paradox, I prayed that prayer that night...

Ah, the Augustine's paradox; "Lord, command what you will and give what you command." Val Til is one who understood.

I was thinking how most Christians apply this paradox in just about every situation except salvation. Most of us believe God controls all things yet we must pray for things. God controls our lives yet we pray that we get that job promotion. If God grants it we thank Him that He gave it to us. If we do not get the promotion we feel that, that wasn't what God really desires for us. This is instinctive behavior for Christians. Only in salvation do we feel we make a choice.

838 posted on 09/09/2006 1:55:23 AM PDT by HarleyD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 837 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg

True enough.

AND

those truths have

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

to do with displacing Jacob's blood descendants from their unique Covenanted blessings and promises in and from God Almighty.

Absolutely nothing.


839 posted on 09/09/2006 2:10:01 AM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 836 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg

Many good points in the doc.

Not a shred of it convinces me of a microgram's worth of Contrarian Replacementarianism but anyway.


840 posted on 09/09/2006 2:16:17 AM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 837 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 801-820821-840841-860 ... 1,041-1,060 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson