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To: FJ290
The Old Catholic Church is not on the list of churches in communion with us or recognized as having valid orders.

Actually, the Old Catholic Church did have valid orders, but they've started "ordaining" women to the priesthood (of course, those women aren't validly ordained to anything), and I believe also to the episcopacy as well. Anyone ordained by their female "bishopesses" wouldn't be validly ordained, so the validity of their orders would cease unless they could be traced back through a male line.

47 posted on 08/07/2006 11:04:13 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion
Actually, the Old Catholic Church did have valid orders, but they've started "ordaining" women to the priesthood (of course, those women aren't validly ordained to anything), and I believe also to the episcopacy as well. Anyone ordained by their female "bishopesses" wouldn't be validly ordained, so the validity of their orders would cease unless they could be traced back through a male line.

Okay, can you show me documentation from the Vatican that they had valid holy orders?

48 posted on 08/07/2006 11:06:14 AM PDT by FJ290
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To: Campion
In the Catechism it states who the Holy See considers as having valid Holy Orders:

1399 The Eastern churches that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church celebrate the Eucharist with great love. "These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments, above all - by apostolic succession - the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in closest intimacy." A certain communion in sacris, and so in the Eucharist, "given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not merely possible but is encouraged."238

1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord's death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."240

51 posted on 08/07/2006 11:23:58 AM PDT by FJ290
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