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To: topcat54
The Atonement is not for personal sins, but for the nation (Ezek.45:17) Sorry, but the language of 45:17 is really no different than the language found in Leviticus and elsewhere regarding the temple sacrifices (cf. Lev. 16:16,17).

Yes, and for that Atonement, it was national, not individual.

The individual had to deal with Peace and Trespass offerings.

The Day of Atonement was a once a year sacrifice for the entire nation.

Besides, nations don't commit sins, people commit sins. They may do it collectively, but it still requires atonement for individuals, just as it requires repentance for individuals.

If a nation is God's nation, then that nation can receive intercession by the High Priest, as Moses did for the children of Israel (Ex.32:32)

Righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people (Pr.14:34)

That is why nations are judged in Matthew 25, for what individuals did collectively to the Jews.

But the problem you are running into is that you are trying to literally interpret a passage that can only be understood by spiritually applying it to the work of Jesus Christ, when He, the "prince" in this passage, makes atonement for the people by His own sacrifice on the cross.

No, the Prince, being in the office of the High Priest, will intercede for his nation and make representative sacrifices for them.

Paul does not say that those Jewish things are completely done.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of any holyday, or of the new moon, of the sabbath days, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col.2:16-17)

We read, "Then it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the New Moons, the Sabbaths, and at all the appointed seasons of the house of Israel. He shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel." Jesus came and made a sin offering for the house of Israel. All of those from the nation who trust in Him are saved from their sins. This is the remnant Paul's speaks of in Romans 9-11. Ezekiel's temple is a picture of this great atonement made for us by the work of Our Prince. Looking for a literal temple with literal sacrifices far in the future only distorts Ezekiel's message to the nations.

Oh yea! LOL!

And the water that flows out of the Temple is?(Ezek 47) and the trees that produce leafs for medicine are really what?(vs.12)

If Peter thought that it was the events of Joel 2, then he was wrong, because none of them happened. Alright then, I see where you are coming from. "But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:" (Acts 2:16). Note the word is. Not "could have been" or "should have been", but "is". Peter was plainly declaring that Joel 2 was being fulfilled in the midst on that Pentecost day. That's the "literal" reading of the passage anyway.

No, Peter is simply saying this is what Joel wrote.

You will find that same expression used in Exod.16:22-23, 'this is that which the Lord hath said'

Had the Jews received Christ as a nation those propecies would have been fulfilled (once again-possible history)

Here is a link to a Jewish commentary on the 53rd Psa.

See how allegorical interpretation hides what is really being said.

8. From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them. From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken The prophet reports and says that the heathens (nations [mss., K’li Paz]) will say this at the end of days, when they see that he was taken from the imprisonment that he was imprisoned in their hands and from the judgment of torments that he suffered until now. and his generation The years that passed over him. who shall tell? The tribulations that befell him, for from the beginning, he was cut off and exiled from the land of the living that is the land of Israel for because of the transgression of my people, this plague came to the righteous among them.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=15984&showrashi=true

362 posted on 08/10/2006 10:02:24 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration
See how allegorical interpretation hides what is really being said.

Allegorical interpretation often brings out what is otherwise hidden.

364 posted on 08/10/2006 12:00:33 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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