Land Over Jesus and the Gospel

American Vision ^ | 7/25/2006 | Gary DeMar

[blue-duncan]

I agree. Let's wake him up.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

I've read a fair bit of Reformation era material. I don't recall Calvin, for instance, calling Christians Israel. But maybe it slipped past me.

I was delighted, as of our most recent phone conversation, to find that you've probably exceeded me in your readings on Reformed theological history; but in this case, I think that Topcat is correct (at least as regards John Calvin, anyway):

And upon the Israel of God. ~~ This is an indirect ridicule of the vain boasting of the false apostles, who vaunted of being the descendants of Abraham according to the flesh. There are two classes who bear this name, a pretended Israel, which appears to be so in the sight of men, -- and the Israel of God. Circumcision was a disguise before men, but regeneration is a truth before God. In a word, he gives the appellation of the Israel of God to those whom he formerly denominated the children of Abraham by faith, (Galatians 3:29,) and thus includes all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were united into one Church. On the contrary, the name and lineage are the sole boast of Israel according to the flesh; and this led the apostle to argue in the Epistle to the Romans, that "they are not all Israel which are of Israel, neither because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children." (Romans 9:6, 7.) ~~ John Calvin, Commentaries, Galatians 6:16 (emphasis mine)

Thus, John Calvin explains that there are "two Israels" -- the False "Israel" according to the flesh -- who are, in fact, a "pretend israel" who are vainly boasting in the facade of circumcision, and the True Israel of God, which is "all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were united into one church" by "regeneration... a truth before God".

Ergo, the Christian Church is the True Israel, the "Israel of God".

Best, OP

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Christians United for Israel (CUFI) met at the Hilton Washington on July 19 to show their support for Israel. David Brog, author of Standing with Israel, was hired by John Hagee, pastor of the 18,000-member Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, to help with the gathering that brought out a host of political notables.

"Starting with religion, I am a Jew. I am not a Messianic Jew or a Jew for Jesus —-- I don’t believe that the Messiah has ever appeared on Earth." -- David Brog, Standing with Israel

Does anyone find it the least bit problematic that an openly-professed Christ-Rejector has been hired as the Executive Director of a purportedly "Christian" organization?

Land Over Jesus and the Gospel, indeed!

[Gamecock]

It confirms what I have been thinking: the Hagees of the world are much more interested in forcing God's hand rapture wise than they are in bringing the Gospel to the ethnic Jews

[.30Carbine]

Thank you for your replies. As you say, there are promises of God the Living and True concerning the nation and the land of Israel that are still to be fulfilled, some for this day and some for days yet to come.

[George W. Bush]

Does anyone find it the least bit problematic that an openly-professed Christ-Rejector has been hired as the Executive Director of a purportedly "Christian" organization?

The Buddhists and the Muslims were probably too busy.

Do you think the Emergent Church movement and its ideas are having some influence here? I think so.

[George W. Bush]

I was delighted, as of our most recent phone conversation, to find that you've probably exceeded me in your readings on Reformed theological history; but in this case, I think that Topcat is correct (at least as regards John Calvin, anyway):

I'm not on your heels in Reformed reading. Don't fret just yet.

Yes, I had already seen Calvin's exposition. However, I think it's quite striking how he deals with the topic of his scripture. It's very polite, very erudite. The prejudices of his era and the hatred toward the Jews of Europe are not found in Calvin. If only Luther had been so sensible and sound on this topic.

Calvin was a sweet and learned soul, utterly devoted to scripture, a giant of his time.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

The prejudices of his era and the hatred toward the Jews of Europe are not found in Calvin. If only Luther had been so sensible and sound on this topic. Calvin was a sweet and learned soul, utterly devoted to scripture, a giant of his time.

Yeah, Calvin was kindofa softie, by the standards of the time.
He even engaged the occasional Baptist cordially. (ba-dum-dum!)

[ConservativeMind]

Thank you all for your excellent insights on these issues.

This has been a most enlightening discussion.

I would welcome all of you at my table any day.

[blue-duncan]

Thank you, now what's for dinner and where is the table?

[George W. Bush]

I enjoyed it too. Did someone mention food?

[.30Carbine]

Can I come too? I'll bring rum cake. (: