Posted on 07/31/2006 1:50:23 PM PDT by topcat54
And that is their dreadful mistake.
Which is "good news," the temporal land of Israel or the eternal life offered in the gospel? Hagee and his end-time associates have it wrong, dangerously wrong.
Amen.
And, in pursuit of political, temporal goals, I hope Israel the sovereign nation and ally of the United States destroys Hezbollah, sooner rather than later.
"All activities of CUFI are strictly non-conversionary,”
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me", I assume yhat includes the gifts He gives. What good is God's dealing with Israel if not "conversionary"? What good are we to Israel if not agents of reconciliation?
p.s. I'm still premil though!
There is a new covenant, and it means that the Jews are no longer God's Chosen People. Christians are.
That should not be forgotten. Jews will all perish unless they accept Christ.
Biblical Sources available here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1674869/posts?page=162#162
Restoration is predicated on repentance. The error of those futurists who see modern Israel as a fulfillment of anything is that they ignore this principle. And, by and large, the pro-Israel Christian Zionists are slow with the gospel so as to not offend their "hosts"? They forget "the land" belongs to Christians, not Israelis.
"And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, 'to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,' and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." (Luke 1:16,17)
Turning to Messiah Jesus is the only way for wayward Jews (or anyone else) to receive the blessing of the Lord and the prosperity of "the land".
"Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth." (Matt. 5:5)
"For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith." (Rom. 4:13)
"And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gen. 3:29)
Sorry, typo, that was Galatians 3:29.
Certainly, but "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel."
Your misunderstanding obscures the Good News of the Gospel and denies the genuine sorrow Paul felt for those Jews who did not believe in Jesus Christ...
That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger." -- Romans 9:1-12"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Certainly, but "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel."
"Do not say 'We have Abraham for our father' for I tell you that God could raise up from these stones descendants to Abraham"
"If you are in Christ, you are Abraham's descendants and heirs according to the promise."
Unfortunately this is the state of our Christian thought process. I generally remain quiet when they talk about this at church but it has riled me so much that I've told my wife that if they bring it up one more time.... So far they haven't.
You have all shared wise words.
Thank you.
Ok I've got to ask a question that is more rhetorical and a question I've been mauling over in my brain but of which I haven't researched yet. When the scripture refers to the Jews as God's Chosen people is it referring to the Jews as a Nation but not a blood line or is it referring to the Jews as a Nation and blood line. My gut feeling is it is referring to the Nation as a whole and not the Jews individually unless there is a play on words like Paul telling us a real Jew is someone who heart is circumcised.
Another question that has come up in my mind of which I haven't researched is was the Old Covenant specifically given to the Nation of Israel or was it given to them to give to the rest of the world, or are the references on the Old Covenant referring to a prior event that precedes the giving of the Law through Moses.
And finally are all references to the Old Covenant referring to the same thing.
"There is a new covenant, and it means that the Jews are no longer God's Chosen People. Christians are."
And where do you find that in scripture" In Rom. 11:25-27, Paul says that after the "age of the Gentiles" (the church age) God will deal with Israel again,
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes."
I generally remain quiet when they talk about this at church but it has riled me so much that I've told my wife that if they bring it up one more time
You too, eh?
I read them and am very familiar with them and still ask where is the scripture that says, "There is a new covenant, and it means that the Jews are no longer God's Chosen People. Christians are"?
I have given you the rest of Rom. 11 that says something different.
I don't deny that God still cares for His former people. He knows they don't follow Him and don't care at all for His Son.
Those Jews who are part of the elect that Paul describes throughout Rom. 11 are those who have truly heard His Command and have followed Him.
All the other Jews have the hardened hearts Paul speaks about within Rom. 11, and are not part of the elect, nor will they be in Heaven for they will not accept Christ as other Jews have.
Romans 11 does not say a thing that counters the other words, otherwise, the Bible would be inconsistent.
Therefore, Romans 11 is valid in the context of the elect choosing God and following Him correctly.
All the others are refusing to follow Him, hating Him and His Son.
Another question that has come up in my mind of which I haven't researched is was the Old Covenant specifically given to the Nation of Israel or was it given to them to give to the rest of the world,
How does Paul deal with God's covenant with Abraham?
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