Posted on 07/31/2006 10:31:54 AM PDT by NYer
Cool deal. I was concerned that I was missing the point somewhere.
Well, ok, maybe not my soul but definitely my wife and kids
LOL! If only you could buy it with cash, and then you and your wife and kids could all make wine in Australia. Wouldn't that be a dream life ...
So when Jesus tells his apostles in John 20:23 that they have the power to forgive sins in his name, did he not really mean it? Was he blowing smoke? Confused and befuddled? Ignorant of the higher concepts of Pauline theology?
Or maybe, just maybe, he was God in the flesh and knew exactly what he was saying.
C'mon, read the verse. 1 Tm 2:5 doesn't say that nobody can mediate between you and Jesus, it says that nobody can mediate between you and the Father apart from Jesus. If you read it in context, the chapter explicitly commands intercessory prayer, which is a form of mediation.
Wait, maybe Paul was dazed and confused, too! That's it, we'll take 1 Tm 2:5 all by itself, ignoring the rest of the chapter, and ignoring what Jesus said on the topic, and use it to reject that awful, icky, nasty Catholic church! That's what we'll do!
Okay. Same thing, just an opinion. But I've definitely got that Catholic perspective.
Before we ever get to the 'how does it apply in our lives' meaning, what is John telling us that Jesus is doing on that evening? What is going on between Him and those particular persons? He's not speaking to the crowds. And He's already appeared to the women at the tomb and the disciples on the road to Emmaus and He hasn't said anything like this.
To me, it looks like He is sending the disciples to exercise the authority to forgive sins that belongs to Him. Preceeding this He says, "As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
The authority and ability to forgive sins remains God's alone and these particular human beings are one way He chooses to exercise His forgiveness.
Just an opinion, of course.
What ever floats your boat.
However, I would be willing to bet that one of the reasons for the small amount of people going to confession these days, is the lack of anonimity involved in going to confession.
Personally, I find it embarresing to say my sins and so I much prefer the dark little confessional, as I know that the priest and I are the only ones around.
Hear, Hear.
The difference between God and your biological father is rather obvious. While you can see your biological father is quite easy to see, God is not quite so easy. I mean, you know, your father is a physical human being standing in front of you when you talk to him.
"I couldn't think of a safer enviornment for confessing one's sins."
I can. An old style confessional and you speak to the priest through a voice distorter.
If I asked you for a bucket of green steam and a left-handed monkey wrench, I bet you could produce the pictures with your bevvy of contacts!
;-o)
When I was a kid, I used to wander the library for hours waiting to pick out the one perfect book.
Until recently, I used to wander the book stores for hours waiting to pick out the one perfect book.
Now, I find myself wandering through the "Wine Rack" for hours waiting to buy the one perfect red.
Must be aging coming upon me...
Don't mess with Texas...
Excellent thought... The Cure is a favorite saint of mine. You appear to have left out the fact that Satan also attacked him physically from time to time. The timid holy parish priest was undoing a lot of carefully laid plans wrought by the Prince of this World.
F
Plug away ... I love this saint!!
For me confession is the hardest part of my Catholic faith.
This is true for many of us. I avoided confession for a number of years. Then there is 'scrupulosity' at the other end of the confession spectrum. Perhaps this is why the Church insists that we attend the Sacrament of Reconciliation at least once each year.
What! You don't like that particular model of toaster? It not only toasts 4 slices on one side but also on the other ... a handy dandy bread toaster of the finest 'chrome' caliber, ever invented. (glad you don't remember this particular model :-)
Now, as for that left-handed monkey wrench ....
"this nonsense" is a poor term to describe the wonderful sense of peace and the graces that comes with a truly penitential confession. It requires a thorough evaluation of conscience and a firm resolution of remorse and resolve to overcome the sin in the future. Of course, we humans being flawed, mostly return to the bad habits we have, but I have found that the more frequently I go to confession, the easier it is for me to avoid my past sinful behaviors. So, you see, graces flow from a good confession; a sort of divine suit of armor against the forces of evil which try to control us by appealing to our weaker impulses.
Humbleness before God, and an admission of guilt as a sinner is the beginning of holiness.
The priest is not acting on his own, but acts in the person of Christ. We (humans) are sacramental by nature. Our intellect is fed by our senses. We must see things, touch them, smell them. God, being our Creator, made us this way. Knowing this, Jesus Christ decided to leave a physical presence among His Community that He established. We call this the Body of Christ, the Church. The priest acts as "ministers of reconciliation", as per 2 Cor 5:20. They have been given the power to forgive sins by Christ. Why? It enables man to utilize the gifts God has given to man fully. Thus, we are able to come to God with mind AND body.
Thus, it is Christ who offers forgiveness by using the voice of the priest, not by man talking to themselves in the closet. People do not develop humility in this manner. And to become another Christ, we MUST become humble.
Regards
Reacting in a heated way accomplishes nothing. The passage is very clear -- There is ONE mediator between man and God = Jesus. It is very easy to understand.
With the perfect book, wine, and cheese, I could retire happy!
Campion, that's certainly a solid Catholic understanding.
CCC 480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
Mene, I think Campion's point is that that line by itself does not express in what manner Christ chooses to exercise His mediation.
In the second chapter Paul first asks for intercessory prayer, " First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity."
If the 'body of Christ' is real and not an empty symbol, then the prayers of any Christian can be efficacious only because Christ has chosen to unite His people to Himself and act through them. Not because any human being has done anything to deserve that, quite the contrary, but because of His love for us.
The Church constantly reminds us that Christ is the only mediator for humanity. All her public prayers end with words similar to "We make our prayer through Christ our Lord. Amen."
There is also ONE God, and yet there are three divine persons.
There is also ONE body (1 Cor 10:17), and yet many members.
Our praying and interceding for others is not incompatible with Jesus being the ONE mediator between man and God, so long as our prayers to God are *through* Christ. That is also true of the Apostles (just look how often they acted on behalf of Christ to others, and prayed to Christ on behalf of others). It is also true of those whom Christ, through the Apostles, gave authority through the sacrament of ordination, all the way down to the present. Their activity in their priestly role is not mutually exclusive with that of Christ's, but rather is the very means Christ Himself has appointed through which we are to receive Christ's forgiveness.
As long as one thinks of mediation as mutually exclusive, one will misinterpret the verse in italics above, and mischaracterize the Catholic position.
-A8
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.