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To: wmfights
How about the phrases "Queen of Heaven", "Co-Redemptress","Mother of GOD".

"Queen of Heaven" is from a traditional devotion called the Litany of Loreto. If Jesus is King (and He is), then His Mother is queen mother. "Co-Redemptrix" is a Latin term, that means "a woman who assisted with the redemptive act" (of Jesus). It isn't dogma, but pious belief of many Catholics. "Mother of God" is an acknowledgement of Jesus' divinity, as He was fully human and fully divine, and one is inseparable from the other.

I might be wrong , please correct me if I am, do you believe Mary was taken to heaven before she died?

The "jury" is out on that one. The dogma of the Assumption teaches that after her last minute on earth, Mary's was assumed, body and soul into heaven, as she was the Ark of the New Covenant. It doesn't say whether she died or not. If she didn't, there is precedent for that. St. Elias (Elijah) was taken up on a fiery chariot. But I happen to believe that she did die, for her Son died, and all she wanted to do with her life was to be God's handmaid.

Don't you believe that prayers to her are magnified and given special consideration? If so, doesn't this imply she has special powers?

The only implication is that she is the closest to Jesus.

10 posted on 07/28/2006 7:50:10 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Love is the fusion of two souls in one in order to bring about mutual perfection." -S. Terese Andes)
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To: Pyro7480; wmfights; fortheDeclaration

I think you make it way too complicated.

It's not.

Believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior who paid for your sins by His death and resurrection, and you are one of His flock, by the grace of God alone.


13 posted on 07/28/2006 7:59:07 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Pyro7480; wmfights

>> "Co-Redemptrix" is a Latin term, that means "a woman who assisted with the redemptive act" (of Jesus). It isn't dogma, but pious belief of many Catholics.<<

Of course, it's not JUST a pious belief, it's a fact that Mary assisted with the redemptive act, although it's also a fact that she in no way had the power to make it more perfect; any graces she has flow from God. Even this subtlety has been portrayed for centuries in art. Look at the points of origin of the rays shining through Mary's hands; now look at those from Jesus. In any painting of Mary with such rays (representinng grace), the point of origin is not from within her hand, as it is in the images of Christ. Rather, the point of origin is above her head.

I believe the reason the Church resists formally approving of the use of the term, "co-redemptrix" is precisely because the term IS dangerously ambiguous. Those who have used it have used it with certain connotations that Mary is not the source of any grace or redemption, merely the channel. But the word does not necessarily carry that connotation, and so the Church does not teach it, lest it unintentionally lead the flock into idolatry.


15 posted on 07/28/2006 8:02:06 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Pyro7480
"The "jury" is out on that one. The dogma of the Assumption teaches that after her last minute on earth, Mary's was assumed, body and soul into heaven, as she was the Ark of the New Covenant."

I am not sure what you mean by the "jury is out" if its dogma isn't that what the official teaching of your church is?
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"If Jesus is King (and He is), then His Mother is queen mother. "Co-Redemptrix" is a Latin term, that means "a woman who assisted with the redemptive act" (of Jesus)."

JESUS preexisted the world he was "begotten not made" I believe a more straight forward and not misleading statement would be "Mother of JESUS". Mary did not create GOD.

By your definition of "Co-Redemptrix" the soldiers who forced JESUS to carry the cross were Co-Redeemers because they assisted in the redemptive act.

I come from the perspective that anything that takes away from our focus on JESUS is suspect. I have no doubt that Mary was truly a good righteous woman just as I think Joseph was a good righteous man. However, I don't believe either should be elevated to a status that is equal to our mutual LORD and SAVIOUR.
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"The only implication is that she is the closest to Jesus."

Why do you think she is closer to JESUS than any other believer. What about John the disciple JESUS loved? What about the first martyr Stephen whose FAITH was so great he died in our Savior's name?
25 posted on 07/28/2006 8:21:42 PM PDT by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or Get Out Of The WAY!)
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