That sneaky desperate Catholic Church is at it again

American Papist ^ | July 22, 2006 | Thomas

[kosta50]

I think opinions might differ on just who is in schism with whom

Of course! :)

[Mrs. Don-o]

I think Benedict XVI is motivated to at least try to re-configure the papacy in such a way that it carries out the Lord's mandate to Peter to "strengthen the brethren" without the fully-elaborated monarchial mode across all jurisdictions which seems, well, un-Peter-like.

Anyway, I have learned and loved a lot about Orthodoxy via my marriage. I cheer on evey sign of unity because it is a matter so dear to the heart of Christ.

[kosta50]

without the fully-elaborated monarchial mode across all jurisdictions which seems, well, un-Peter-like

But St. Peter never acted as a monarch. His humility would not allow it. Other Apostles established churches without is approval. Yet, he spoke for all on many an occasion. We must separate the biblical Peter as the "elder brother" among Apostles, and not their king, from the imperial Peter in the Imperial Rome.

Be it as it may, the best of the best of the Church of the East and the West will meet this fall in Belgrade, Serbia, to hammer out this and to try to find common language so that the Pope can convene an Ecumenical Council to which both the East and the West will come for the first time in 13 centuries.

I have learned and loved a lot about Orthodoxy via my marriage. I cheer on every sign of unity because it is a matter so dear to the heart of Christ

And I have learned and loved a lot about many a Catholic (Fr. Corappi, Mother Angelica, Mother Theresa, Fr. Thomas [Merton]...and equally many on this Forum annalex, jo kus, Petrosius, sitetes and more...)

[annalex]

Thank you for the kind words.

It also needs to be borne in mind that much in the Roman Catholic papacy has been shaped by the fact that the Pope is also the patriarch of the Latin Church, which suffered the Protestant schism. The strong papacy is a response to the centrifugal tendency of the Reformation.

[kosta50]

It also needs to be borne in mind that much in the Roman Catholic papacy has been shaped by the fact that the Pope is also the patriarch of the Latin Church, which suffered the Protestant schism

Obviously many things shaped Papacy, including the need for protection, the Frankish alliance and so on. I believe the dialogue about to begin in a few months will certainly separate historical and political elements that influenced and even necessitated changes in Papacy as well as in both Churches, and concentrate on the pastoral, biblical and patristic meaning of Peter's ministry relative to other successors of Apostolic sees.

PS You are most welcome, Alex. I meant it form my heart

[A.A. Cunningham]

We're arguing with people who are, quite frankly, ignorant of Scripture and the history of the Church.

[wmfights]

"We're arguing with people who are, quite frankly, ignorant of Scripture and the history of the Church."
___________________________________

This seems to be the typical fall back position.

The EO church can trace their succession of leadership back to the Apostles and at one time was united with the RC church. They have priests that are married and it is only the position of Bishop which is almost solely celibate. They view celibacy as a discipline but not a mandate of the SCRIPTURES so I assume your are saying they are ignorant of the SCRIPTURES as well.

K: I posted you because you provided the information on the EO church practices.

[A.A. Cunningham]

The Orthodox Church is in schism, whether you or they admit it or not. So no, there is not an unbroken line of succession from the Apostles.

21 of the 22 Churches sui juris which comprise the Catholic Church will ordain, as a norm, married men to the Priesthood. The Latin Rite, as a norm, ordains celibate men to the Priesthood choosing to follow the examples and teachings of Christ, St, Paul and the Apostles. Celibacy is a discipline not a doctrine. The discipline of celibacy is praised by both Christ and St. Paul in Scripture. Melchisedech, first mentioned in the Book of Genesis, and upon whose Levitical Priesthood the Catholic Priesthood is based, was a celibate.

You should recall the question Peter posed to Christ about what the reward would be for those who gave up everything, including a wife if they were married, and we know definitively that only Peter was at one time married, in order to serve Christ.

"Then Peter answering, said to him: Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: what therefore shall we have? And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you, that you, who have followed me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of his majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting. And many that are first, shall be last: and the last shall be first." Matthew 19:27-30

"Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee. Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting." Luke 18:28-30

Perhaps you weren't aware of those passages. Perhaps you aren't aware of the following ones either.

"For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it." Matthew 19:12

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided." 1 Corinthians 7:32-33

They have priests that are married and it is only the position of Bishop which is almost solely celibate.

Married men can be ordained but once ordained a single Priest may not then get married and remain an active Priest. All Bishops, not almost all are celibate.

People who claim that the discipline of celibacy is unscriptural are simply ignorant of Scripture.

[fortunecookie]

We just had a visit from Cardinal Arinze here in St. Augustine. He celebrated Mass at the Cathedral yesterday, and we all turned out for it. He's a very charming person, with that wonderful African accent and fondness for telling odd little allegories to illustrate his point.

How wonderful you were able to attend Mass celebrated by Cardinal Arinze!

Afterwards, when he was greeting people, he kept asking all the young boys if they were going to be priests when they grew up!

More of our priests and bishops need to do this, regularly! Sadly, our local priests and bishop spend more time lamenting the priest shortage and how to get more lay people involved. And one or 2 no longer serving here, would ask about vocations. They would ask the girls! Yes, one in particular did this regularly. He would ask the girls if they thought about being priests when they grew up. Not the boys. When one boy chimed in that girls can't be priests, this priest corrected him by saying, 'Not yet, maybe not in my life time, but surely in yours.' And when another boy mentioned that he thought about it, he was told that the question was for the girls only. I do pray for him.

[livius]

And when another boy mentioned that he thought about it, he was told that the question was for the girls only.

Good grief! I don't know what diocese you live in, but I hope the bishop heard about this immediately (and was NOT in agreement with the priest, of course)!

[fortunecookie]

He did hear about it. Someone else beat me to it. I was a new CCD teacher at the time, and when I told the teacher in charge about it, she said, 'He does that every year'. And yes the Bishop knows and he doesn't disagree. He doesn't openly agree, but he never disagrees. And she has acted differently to me ever since, because I could not be molded to fit that whole women priest, liturgical dance, small faith groups (as uniquely interpreted by our diocese) mentality that she and a few others were pushing behind the scenes, unbeknownst to me at the time.

I did make sure my group heard the actual Catholic teaching on the matter. And I do emphasize that point each year.