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To: nopardons

Dear nopardons,

"Yes, Freemasonry DOES teach something counter to Catholic teachings..."

If that is true, it is reason enough for Catholics not to join Masonry.

"...that all men are equal and that men of good character should be viewed as 'brothers'."

Actually, Catholicism teaches that all are created in the image and likeness of God, and in this way, all are equal. What we do not believe is that all men are created equal in terms of their natural and supernatural gifts, station in life, etc.

However, it's fair to say that Masonry tends to discount the Christian revelation as being authoritative and absolutely true. Its belief in the divinity is proved exclusively through natural revelation. Of course, this is understandable for an organization that tries to appeal to theists of every stripe. However, the overemphasis on natural revelation, to the exclusion of Divine revelation, is not something that the Catholic Church can accept. For Catholics, that's enough not to belong to Masonry.

I've discussed Masonic history with friends who are Masons, including one fellow who has researched Masonic history pretty thoroughly. I think one thing that most Catholics don't understand is that Masonry isn't like Catholicism, in that it isn't a monolithic movement with a unified central authority. My understanding is that there are different branches of Masonry, and that not all branches even agree who's in and who's out (even you allude to these facts).

Thus, one should be careful about holding all Masons responsible for the actions of some masons.

My Masonic friend has helped me explore a little some of the more sensationalist charges against Masonic ceremonials, especially those related to satanism. I've seen a significant amount of source documents concerning Masonic ceremonials as a result. My friend has actually given me a very old, out-of-date book showing the ceremonials for the degrees from one of the main rites (it's at work, so don't ask me any details right now - I just don't have the book handy). In perusing the volume, frankly, I found it difficult to uphold charges of satanism, or even explicitly anti-Christian teaching. As well, I didn't find the purported anti-Catholic oaths I've read on the Internet. I found some of the material sometimes quoted by anti-Masonic folks, but it was clear to me that it had been quoted out of context.

In fact, in some of the ceremonials, the imagery is actually explicitly Christian, and at times, even Catholic.

I'm a Catholic, and I'd never ever join the Masons, but these more fantastic charges haven't been sustained by my own research. Of course, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. As well, I haven't looked at all the ceremonials used at all times by all rites.

However, the more general charge of Masonic anti-Catholicism is more readily sustained. It's true that there are lodges in Europe that have been virulently anti-Catholic. My Masonic friend tells me that those groups weren't "real Masons," but the problem with not having a central authority is that to the outsider, all you have is competing claims of legitimacy from each group. To this outsider, they all look like Masons to me, so I'm inclined to think they're all Masons, as there isn't any Masonic "pope" to excommunicated them.

As well, in the United States, Masons corporately pushed for the anti-Catholic Blaine amendments that litter the constitutions of many states, preventing any state government funds from ever accruing to the benefit of Catholic schools. "Rum, Romanism, and rebellion!!"

In the Northwest, Masons pushed to actually ban Catholic schools, but were smacked down by the Supreme Court. Interestingly, the legal doctrines established from these cases now form the basis for constitutional law interpretation related to homeschooling.

And of course, another poster has cited the anti-Catholic deeds of Mexican Masons.

Now, it's true that probably most Masons are not (at least any longer) openly anti-Catholic. Anti-Catholic bigotry is less acceptable, and less pronounced today than, say, a hundred or a hundred fifty years ago. It's also true that many Masons a century and a half ago who were likely anti-Catholic were anti-Catholic because American culture was largely anti-Catholic, not because they were Masons.

And some will defend by saying that what some Masons did shouldn't be ascribed to all Masons. That's fair enough, but the fact is that a lot of Masons, and a lot of Masonic organizations, at a lot of times, have been anti-Catholic. I believe that the anti-Catholicism has largely abated.

However, as a devout Catholic, I don't really have any interest in a movement with the degree of anti-Catholic history that the Masons have generally.


sitetest


169 posted on 07/20/2006 4:02:44 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest; nopardons; uglybiker

"However, as a devout Catholic, I don't really have any interest in a movement with the degree of anti-Catholic history that the Masons have generally."

There are many Catholic members of my Lodge. Are you to say that because of the Catholic history of Anti-Masonry, that I am not to associate with them or have interest in the Catholic Church, which I believe to be a force for good?


177 posted on 07/20/2006 4:21:45 PM PDT by 5Madman2 (There is no such thing as an experienced suicide bomber)
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To: sitetest

FREEMASONRY IS NOT A RELIGION, NOR IS IT AFFILLIATED WITH ANY PARTICULAR RELIGION; IT IS A FRATERNAL ORGANIZATION!

For most of its history, America was anti-Catholic. Even well into the middle of the 20th century and JFK's presidential run, the anti-Catholic bigotry was rampant. I am not condoning this; just stating a factual historical point. The reason for that, is that you are making broad assertions about Freemasonry, which are not true. Masonry would and DID accept Catholics into the Craft, bearing NO animosity towards Roman Catholics, even though the Catholic church bore extreme and unfounded animus against it.

It was Protestant, all over this country, who, for more than a century, did everything they could do, to prevent Catholics from starting parochial schools. And to also prevent any kind of public funding for such things as school buses. There WERE quotas for Catholics, as there were for Jews, at ALL Ivy League colleges. William F. Buckley even wrote about about this, in his first book.

I'm glad that your friend gave you information and books which allowed you to see that what sometimes gets posted to such threads, as "fact", isn't. Thank you for posting that.

And yes, many weirdo groups, both in the past and today, have called themselves Masons or some kind of Masons, when, in fact, they weren't and had NO connection, whatsoever, to/with Freemasonry.

Freemasonry is NOT a religion. But it actually DOES have head officers and a Grand Lodge that oversees smaller ones inside each state. And yes, they DO condemn the non-Masonic organizations, that call themselves some sort of a Masonic group.

AFAIK, ALL of American Freemasonry have the same rites and orders. And the same is true in England.

The fact is, that many Catholics have been Masons; both in America and in Europe. Various Popes have, at different times, ignored Masonry, condemned one or two of the lodges, condemned ALL of Freemasonry, and didn't think that there was anything wrong with it. Pick a time period and you'll get a different Papal assessment of it, until somewhat recently.

If your religious beliefs preclude you from joining, that's understandable. What is neither understandable nor acceptable, is the sometimes vituperate, uncalled for, spurious slander, libel, and tinfoil covered replies, made by the anti-Masons to FR.

229 posted on 07/20/2006 6:33:33 PM PDT by nopardons
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