Posted on 07/12/2006 7:29:49 PM PDT by sionnsar
Your post is one of those little gems that I manage to stumble upon on FR from time to time. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
Germany, WYD, May 2005
Germany, WYD, May 2005
Germany, WYD, May 2005
Germany, WYD, May 2005
Germany, WYD, May 2005
Germany, WYD, May 2005
Poland, May 2006
Spain, June 2006
The Vatican website has a lot of great pictures that can't be copied. They have some of the best pictures
The Catholic Church shall never fail, and neither shall Europe.
I think you are mistaking me for another FReeper with that, but I do agree with you entirely.
Thank-you for those wonderful pictures. The Roman Catholic Church will never die, it is build on solid rock.
Because of faith in Jesus Christ.
I remember early this year watching on EWTN a special about a Ukranian Eastern Rite Catholic monostic communities, both the men and the women. A large number of new members are young adults. So if the start of Christian revival comes, it will come from the eastern side. Also the Orthodox churches are going through a revival also.
Sorry about that! Must need more coffee.
Wherever they go it is sad to see them go -- but I pray the best for them wherever they arrive. I pray too it'll be far better than what drove them out of (P)ECUSA/TEC.
Christ did found one Church. It is the body of Christ, all true believers.
Sometimes I feel as though I am shouting to the wind, or beating my head against a wall. Why is it that nearly everyone views the Catholic Church as being strictly the Roman Catholic Church? It is much more diverse than that.
Although it is not widely known in our Western world, the Catholic Church is actually a communion of Churches. According to the Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church is understood to be "a corporate body of Churches," united with the Pope of Rome, who serves as the guardian of unity (LG, no. 23). At present there are 22 Churches that comprise the Catholic Church. The new Code of Canon Law, promulgated by Pope John Paul II, uses the phrase "autonomous ritual Churches" to describe these various Churches (canon 112). Each Church has its own hierarchy, spirituality, and theological perspective. Because of the particularities of history, there is only one Western Catholic Church, while there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches.
You may ask yourselves ... "so what? We can also head east through the Orthodox Churches." Or, as FreeRep noted, to the Evangelical Church. But in so doing, you have all missed our Lord's great plan. Together with all Christ's disciples, the Catholic Church bases upon God's plan her ecumenical commitment to gather all Christians into unity. Pope JPII addressed this most succinctly in one of his letters.
Already in the Old Testament, the Prophet Ezekiel, referring to the situation of God's People at that time, and using the simple sign of two broken sticks which are first divided and then joined together, expressed the divine will to "gather from all sides" the members of his scattered people. "I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Then the nations will know that I the Lord sanctify Israel" (cf. 37:16-28). The Gospel of John, for its part, considering the situation of the People of God at the time it was written, sees in Jesus' death the reason for the unity of God's children: "Jesus would die for the nation, and not for the nation only, but to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad" (11:51-52). Indeed, as the Letter to the Ephesians explains, Jesus "broke down the dividing wall of hostility ... through the Cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end"; in place of what was divided he brought about unity (cf. 2:14-16).
6. The unity of all divided humanity is the will of God. For this reason he sent his Son, so that by dying and rising for us he might bestow on us the Spirit of love. On the eve of his sacrifice on the Cross, Jesus himself prayed to the Father for his disciples and for all those who believe in him, that theymight be one, a living communion. This is the basis not only of the duty, but also of the responsibility before God and his plan, which falls to those who through Baptism become members of the Body of Christ, a Body in which the fullness of reconciliation and communion must be made present. How is it possible to remain divided, if we have been "buried" through Baptism in the Lord's death, in the very act by which God, through the death of his Son, has broken down the walls of division? Division "openly contradicts the will of Christ, provides a stumbling block to the world, and inflicts damage on the most holy cause of proclaiming the Good News to every creature".5
The way of ecumenism: the way of the Church 7. "The Lord of the Ages wisely and patiently follows out the plan of his grace on behalf of us sinners. In recent times he has begun to bestow more generously upon divided Christians remorse over their divisions and a longing for unity. Everywhere, large numbers have felt the impulse of this grace, and among our separated brethren also there increases from day to day a movement, fostered by the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the restoration of unity among all Christians. Taking part in this movement, which is called ecumenical, are those who invoke the Triune God and confess Jesus as Lord and Saviour. They join in not merely as individuals but also as members of the corporate groups in which they have heard the Gospel, and which each regards as his Church and, indeed, God's. And yet almost everyone, though in different ways, longs that there may be one visible Church of God, a Church truly universal and sent forth to the whole world that the world may be converted to the Gospel and so be saved, to the glory of God".6 Migrating from one dissenting church to another is not part of Christ's plan. He promised to remain with His church until the end of time and that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. In the course of her existence, the Catholic Church has had several popes whose lifestyles were less than admirable ... YET ... not one erred in doctrine! Our Lord never promised that the leaders of His church would be perfect but He did promise to send the Holy Spirit to guide the Church. Only one church can make this claim. Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.) Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history. Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established. |
Thank you! Keep shouting -- it will get through... *\;-)
"The Georgian Orthodox Church is one of the world's most ancient Christian Churches, and tradition traces its origins to the mission of Apostle Andrew in the 1st century. It is an autocephalous (self-headed) part of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Georgian Orthodoxy has been a state religion in parts of Georgia since the 4th century, and is the majority religion in that country.
"The oldest Georgian church was constructed in the beginning of the 3rd century."
"Georgian Christianity was historically influenced by the church of the Byzantine Empire, and has always been part of the wider Eastern Orthodox Church. From the 320s, the Georgian Orthodox Church was under the jurisdiction of the Apostolic See of Antioch."
Good to see you in the forum. I have missed your postings.
"When it comes right down to it, the Eastern Patriarchal claim is that the See of Peter has the power to advise, but not to command and compel."
Actually, many Roman Bishops of the 1st millennium made the same "infallible" claim that none were "infallible" (quite the paradox for RCs)...most Roman Catholics are never learned of these facts.
"The ENTIRETY of Orthodoxy fell to Islam, except for Russia, which fell to the Mongols, and then to the Communists."
You fail to see the crucified Christ. Let's not forget that Rome marched against the East...ransacked Constantinople...brought Prostitutes into the Church of the Holy Wisdom and performed many despicable acts. Which side represents true Christianity? Who is hung upon the cross? Those who formed no army, or those performing the nailing using worldly might? I'd suggest studying the atrocities of Rome as they blended in with the invaders and became like the world around them.
Yes, Constantinople fell as did all of Orthodoxy by worldly powers…As did Christ on the Cross (but only for a time). Orthodoxy is not about worldly power...although some may think so...it is about the crucified Christ allowing the world to do its evil on His body, the faithful, until He returns. The only commander and chief is Christ, the only true Head of the Church.
I hear so many westerns, so called Christians, justifying their worldly power on the basis that those that have remain truly humble and faithful have been led to the cross as the crowd (Islam, Roman Catholicism, Protestants) stands by thirsting for blood and justification.
"Look...He who raised others from the dead...cannot save Himself and come down from the cross" Don't fool yourself into thinking that the weakness of men is the sign of weakness of God, Christ, or His body. That is worldly thinking...that is the spirit of the world and darkness…that is the “two-horned lamb that speaks like the dragon”.
The author of this article had a dream she shared...so have I...which I share for you:
On the anniversary of the death of Pope Leo the IX (I only learned that it was this anniversary 6 months later), as I slept, I was asked three times who was the Pope that excommunicated the Orthodox Church in 1054. Two times I answered "I do not know". The third time I sat up from a sound sleep and answered, from a passage in John 21 that has puzzled me for many years..."It was the 153rd Pope". I ran down stairs to my computer and did a search and sure enough it was the 153rd Pope (although 6 months later when I was trying to document this dream I looked again and found that it was now listed as the 152nd Pope...only I remembered that I had printed the list out a week after the dream...the printout showed Pope Leo IX as the 153rd...the new list showed him as the 152nd...after careful study someone had gone in and changed the list so that it now showed two 92nd Popes see http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/articles/popelist.htm ).
Although I firmly belived that St Peter was forgiven, I believe now that Christ was looking at the fish when asking "Do you love me more than these" (toutwn - neuter not masculine as is widely believed). This was Christ telling us about the future (for the next few verses speak also of the future for St Peter and St John) and that the Great fish were Roman Bishops, many good, some not so good, finally culminating in a Great fish that would no longer love Christ (that’s not to imply that there have not been some great Eastern Bishops and some really bad - it only relates to the conversation Christ had with St Peter and speaking of the future of his successors and Christ's foreknowledge of the Great Schism that would eventually lead to another very deceptive gosple).
At tree is know by its fruit and the fruit of this schism was like no other before or after. The worldly military might of Rome marched against their 1000 year brotherhood in the Body of Christ, the Judas Kiss, and raped, pillaged, murdered, and even justified cannibalism...while wearing the sign of the cross, marching in Christ's name, and justifying deeds of darkness "looking like a lamb but speaking like a dragon".
I would highly suggest reading http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm , and http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/encyc_1848.aspx, and to understand that the 8th Ecumenical Council, which Rome was in agreement to for nearly 200 years until 1054AD when Rome switched it with the Robber Council, clearly stated that any change to the Nicean-Constantinopolitan Creed, ie the Filioque, already excommunicated the Pope of Rome.
I know how tempting and comfortable it is to want to have something tangible in this world to replace Christ. Orthodoxy has been both the visible and invisible Body of Christ since 33AD…it has had it’s good and faithful Apostles and it share of Judas’s…but that was part of what Christ left us till the end…a means of separating the wheat from the chaff. Yet in spite of us, the Holy Spirit was given as a promise to guide us in all Truth.
Schisms will come and go just as Judas came out of the twelve…Christ’s faithful followers (Body) will be nailed to the Cross by the world until He returns…and He will…and the world will continue during that period to think as did the Jew of those days thinking that the weakness was a sign of God’s weakness or the absence of God.
DON’T BE FOOLED
"The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054."
4 of 5 Original Patriarchs in complete theological unity, modeled after the Apostle Council of 49AD (when St James presided as the first Bishop of the Church), stood against the Roman Bishop for allowing the change to the creed (and other matters of dogma) that was later found to be an error of Rome (Rome later discovers that the filioque was not part of the original creed and this knowledge in-part has led to the needed theology behind papal infallibility). 200 years earlier decided by the 8th Ecumenical Council, including Rome, to be itself a reason for excommunication (adding/subtracting from the creed). This 8th Ecumenical Council changed to the Robber Council by Rome after the 1054AD schism to justify Rome’s actions.
And yet it was the Eastern Orthodox that broke unity. Even thought Pope Leo the IX died before the bull of excommunication was delivered...the Cardinal that delivered it died after doing so...and the fruit of the worldly military might of Rome desecrating the Church of Holy Wisdom and other atrocities seems like it justifies Rome.
WOW...sounds like some of today’s Liberal logic. Make evil look good and good look evil.
Seems like when Europe seeks her roots, ancient slights are revived and war follows. At least now we have a common enemy.
This does seem to be the case and is one reason I am a joyful catechumen at St. Andrew's Orthodox Church.
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