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To: Jerry Built; Judith Anne; annalex
Good to see you again, Jerry Built! I hope you are well.

How would you explain the experience which seems almost the opposite of the woman seeking out and touching the cloak of Our Lord? By this I mean that in other cases it seems that it is the Lord who is seeking out the person and drawing that person to Himself --in other words, it is Jesus who initiates the events that leads the person to Himself ...

Well, since Judith Anne's post to me was announced as being non-theological, I decided it would be right and proper not to get into the nitty gritty of it on those terms. But since you asked ... :) When I said that all seekers search out God "for their own reasons", I meant that is certainly what the human experience is. That was my personal experience. However, the whole truth, IMHO, is that it is ALWAYS God who draws His children to Him. So, we can ask the question of what caused the woman to seek out Christ? For me, as a Reformer, the truly important matter is not that I chose (sought after) Christ, but that He chose me first. Here is a short excerpt from (then) Cardinal Ratzinger's Homily at John Paul II's Funeral Mass:

How often, in his letters to priests and in his autobiographical books, has he spoken to us about his priesthood, to which he was ordained on November 1, 1946. In these texts he interprets his priesthood with particular reference to three sayings of the Lord.

First: "It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain" (John 15:16). The second saying is: "A good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep" (John 10:11). And then: "As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love" (John 15:9). In these three sayings we see the heart and soul of our Holy Father. He really went everywhere, untiringly, in order to bear fruit, fruit that lasts.(emphasis added)

So, since I think that only the elect bear fruit that remains, that means that God chose His elect before they chose Him. (However, on this point I do believe that Alex and I disagree.)

Therefore, I would "guess" that the woman in the story was already "saved", in the Reformed sense of the word, because of her faith AND that she was drawn to Jesus for her need by "God". I say "God" because the context of the text does not sound like it was the man Jesus who was doing the summoning, that came from a divine level.

We also see Paul with his thorn. I think it still works like this today. When we get sick or are hurting where do we turn? The true Christian always turns to God in time of need. These stories help to remind me where to go when I'm hurting like that. And at those times I really need reminding! :)

38 posted on 07/06/2006 8:36:37 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper

;-D

I really enjoy reading your posts, they're thoughtful, and so well-written...pardon me, please about the "theology" remarks. I just have to keep my attention on the Eucharist, because I'm easily distracted and confused.

So, I read your post several times, and it's a good one. Thanks for the ping, and God bless.


39 posted on 07/06/2006 9:15:48 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Jerry Built; Judith Anne
what caused the woman to seek out Christ? For me, as a Reformer, the truly important matter is not that I chose (sought after) Christ, but that He chose me first

Exactly so. What caused the woman to seek out Christ? Why, Christ did, -- He crossed the sea another time to meet them.

The realization that Christ chooses before we do is important as we reflect about infant baptism, where Christ meets the infant before the infant meets Christ.

43 posted on 07/06/2006 3:55:40 PM PDT by annalex
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