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To: NYer; bonfire; rogator; nmh

"Mary's role in redemption is to lead ALL souls to her Son"

Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ as the scriptures tell us,

Jhn 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning."


Jhn 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come,
he will reprove the world of sin, and
of righteousness, and
of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you."

No where in scripture does it say Mary has any other role in redemption other than that of Jesus' mother. We all have as much a role in redemption as she did by witnessing to the saving power of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus as the all sufficient satisfaction for sin.


17 posted on 06/29/2006 6:37:14 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan

"Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus."

I am sure glad we have you around to tell us the proper role of the Mother of God.

However, you might want to know that the vast majority of Christians living and dead might not agree with you.


19 posted on 06/29/2006 6:43:36 PM PDT by rogator
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To: blue-duncan
Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation. She is dead now and serves no useful purpose to those on earth except for her role historically as the mother of Jesus.

The book of Revelation is pretty clear about the saints being in Heaven.

20 posted on 06/29/2006 6:44:01 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you wish to go to extremes, let it be in... patience, humility, & charity." -St. Philip Neri)
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To: blue-duncan

"Mary has any other role in redemption other than that of Jesus' mother"

That's a pretty big role!!!

I, as a Christian, believe in eternal life and believe that Mary, just as any true believer, is in Heaven worshiping her Son. I also belive, as did those at the wedding feast at Cana, that she can intercede for me as well as, if not better, any human on earth can.

God is all powerful and all merciful. He can bring any one to Him in anyway He chooses. The world first knew its Savior through His mother. It does not surprise me that once again, God chooses to bring people to Him through His mother again. Just as God works through those living on earth, so too does He work with those living in Heaven.

However He chooses to extend His grace and mercy, I thank and praise Him.


32 posted on 06/29/2006 8:47:07 PM PDT by mockingbyrd
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To: blue-duncan

Mary is not "dead". She does not cease to be the mother of Jesus Christ anymore than your mother will ever crease to be your mother. The difference is who her child is and who your mother's child is.


37 posted on 06/29/2006 9:31:06 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: blue-duncan; bonfire; rogator; nmh; Pyro7480
Mary's role in redemption is to be saved just as all sinners are saved by trusting Christ for her salvation.

Were Jesus born of a sinner as some claim, that would mean either

a) the Savior could not save His own Mother from contracting sin or

b) He refused to honor His Mother in every way he could.

So Jesus would be either a weak Savior or a trangressor of His own Commandment to "Honor your father and your mother" (Exodus 20:12). The Immaculate Conception is clearly a belief which exalts Jesus!

Genesis 3:15 is a prophecy of the Messiah ("Seed of the woman") and His Virgin Mother (the "woman").  Notice that God says "I will put enmity between you (the serpent) and the woman", that is, between Satan and Mary!  God foretold in the Garden that He would put enmity between the Devil and the Mother of the Messiah.  Satan would be enemies not only with Mary's Son, but with Mary herself!

Now the Bible says that sin makes us enemies of God (Mt 12:30; Ro 5:8-10; James 4:4) and children of the Devil (Jn 8:44; I Jn 3:10).  A sinner is not Satan's enemy, but his ally--even his "child", or seed! Were Mary ever a sinner, she would not be the devil's enemy, as God had decreed; she would have been the devil's daughter and the enemy of God-the enemy of her own Son! God's promise to put enmity between her and the ancient Serpent would then be a lie!

Yet God cannot lie, and His word always comes to pass (Is 55:10).  So He did indeed put enmity between Satan and the Woman by preserving the Woman from all sin, original and actual.  Mary is not a child of the Devil; by God's Will she is a daughter of God from the beginning of her existence and the ally of her Seed against the evil one.

In Luke 1:28, the angel Gabriel greets Mary as "full of grace".  Protestant translations often render this as "highly favored", but this is a weak, inaccurate translation.  The Greek term here is kecharitomene, a perfect present participle of the verb charitoo, which denotes "grace".  A perfect participle indicates an action completed in the past with existing results, and a present participle denotes continuous or repeated action.

So kecharitomene means "you who were and continue to be full of and completed in grace".  Now grace is not mere unmerited favor, but God's gift of spiritual life and communion with Himself.  Sin and grace are opposed (Romans 5:20-21), and grace saves us from sin (Eph 2:5, 8). So Mary's fullness of grace indicates a complete absence of sin.  Thus Luke 1:28 provides a second hint at Mary's sinlessness.

We also see a type of Mary's sinlessness in the holiness of the Ark of the Covenant.  The original ark was clearly a holy vessel.  God meticulously outlined the construction (Ex 25:10-22) and the Holy Spirit actually inspired the artisan who formed it (31:2-3)!  It was made from the finest, purest materials and consecrated to the service of God in the Tabernacle.  The Ark had to be perfect and holy, worthy to bear the awesome Presence of the Holy One of Israel.  It was so holy only a few could touch it (Num 4:15, 2 Sam 6:2-7).

If such an inanimate object could be so holy, how much more holy must Mary have been?  In order to be a worthy vessel for the all-holy God, she had to be utterly holy.  Like the original ark, she was set apart for that sacred task from the beginning of her existence.  This is why Jesus preserved her from contracting original sin by applying the sin-cleansing merits of His Precious Blood to her beforehand.

Christ is the Holy One of Israel in the flesh.  The Bible tells us over and over again about the utter Holiness of God.  It even says that His name is "Holy" (Is 57:15); and in Hebrew thought ones name expressed ones essence.  If God is Holiness Itself, how could He dwell in an unholy vessel? How could the One Who demands holiness from His people (Lev 19:2) and particularly from the priests who minister before Him (Ex 28:6) dwell for nine months in an unholy woman!

Finally, the Bible says "Holiness becometh thine house, O Lord" (Ps 93:5).  Mary was the Lord's "house" for nine months!  If holiness becometh God's house, how could Mary not be holy?  She, like the Tabernacle of old, had to be utterly pure and holy, completely sanctified and consecrated to the Lord, for she was to be the living Holy of holies, the sacred dwelling of the all-holy God.

Taken together, these passages present a powerful biblical case for Mary's sinlessness.  God promised to make her the enemy of the father of sin, the angel declared her to be embued with spiritual life, and her role in bearing the Holy One necessitated that she be utterly holy, like the ark or Tabernacle of old.

45 posted on 06/30/2006 12:16:04 AM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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