Mary a Meeting Point of Cultures, Says Muslim - Encourages Pilgrimages to Marian Shrines

Zenit News Agency ^ | June 29, 2006

[nmh]

"I don't think your position is correct on this issue."

You don't have to "think" about it. It's rather CLEAR!

"I also think you are becoming strident."

I won't state what I'm beginning to think about you ... .

"As regards your post to NYer (#229) in which you refer to "negative" impressions of her and then in a rather condescending way, you write "just for giggles"; this approach is not going to make a dent in the Catholic understanding of Mary and her role in salvation history."

You know what, those answers in the Bible are available for all to SEE and easily understand. It is a choice to NOT understand and accept God's Word. As for someone that feigns not seeing someone else's reply - I'd say that's NOT a positive impression of the person.

"It would be helpful if you understood that."

It would also be "helpful" if you weren't so overly sensitive and developed a sense of humor.

[dollars_for_dogma]

My replies are "error" free. My replies came from the Bible and in the proper context.

Fair enough...

What is your interpretation--as a bible Christian--of John 6:51-58?

[NYer]

"It would be nice if you would READ what I posted to YOU back in REPLY #93 on THIS THREAD. I see no "rebuttals".

On the contrary, you seem to have missed my response to you.

108 posted on 06/30/2006 12:56:43 PM EDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

Please do me the courtesy of reading my response. Thank you!

[NYer]

Check out EWTN. World Over is on live from Philly.

Thank you ... I did and thoroughly enjoyed watching Raymond Arroyo dance. Actually, Peggy Noonand and Fr. John Neuhaus are some of my favorite writers. Thanks again for the heads up!

[FJ290]

Leave it to Muslim to use "Mary" just another sinner.....

You've called Mary that several times on this thread today. Funny that you keep referring to her in that lowly manner when the Bible which you say you esteem says that ALL generations shall call her blessed! She was also found to be full of grace with God. What does that mean to you?

I've even had some Protestants have the nerve to tell me that they are just as holy and equal to Mary. Nope! 'Fraid not. None of you can be called the Mother of the Lord as Elizabeth saluted her.

[Bainbridge]

I think you mean "hackles"
Is English your first language?

[Bainbridge]

I am not a Catholic, if by "also is a Catholic" you mean me.
I am a Christian and I think that the phrase with the scatological reference associated with Jesus' mother is extremely offensive.
I am not chastising the recipient of said e-mail.

[Bainbridge]

It seems to me that if the recipient feels harassed or offended he has the right to expose the material.
Do you not agree?
I think that keeps people in line, if they cannot discipline themselves to behave circumspectly.

[Bainbridge]

So any questioning of your elaborate beliefs about Mary is an attack?
You say there is no point in extending courtesy and then talk about the demands of chivalry?
And the mention of Lewis is, to put it mildly, rather ironic in that he was most decidedly not a Roman Catholic, however much you all might like to pretend that he was, with your last resort being the "death bed conversion" escape clause.

[Religion Moderator]

If the thread is a Church-like thread (devotional, prayer thread, Catholic caucus, etc.) – challenges to doctrine will be removed.

This is not a Church-like thread.

If an atheist comes onto an open thread such as this on the Religion Forum, and makes a disparaging remark about God, I will not remove his post. Believers should be prepared and debunk the challenge.

Likewise, if a person who does not venerate Mary comes onto an open thread such as this and makes a disparaging remark about her, I will not remove his post. Those who do venerate Mary should be prepared and debunk the challenge.

Personally disparaging remarks about other Freepers may be removed because they cripple the debate and incite flame wars. Warnings may be posted. Actions may be taken.

For more information on Religion Forum guidelines, click on my profile page.

This is my last warning on this thread to discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal!

The warning applies to everyone posting on this thread.

[Bainbridge]

Thank you for your clarification of the expectations for conduct and posting.
I must say , as I have said before, that those who venerate Mary seem to identify any challenge to that practice as "attacking", "disparaging", or otherwise mistreating Mary. I believe this is an attempt to demonize anyone who disagrees with them.

[Religion Moderator]

Attributing motives to other Freepers, i.e. reading their minds - is another form of making the debate personal. And I shall treat it as such henceforth on this thread. I am at zero tolerance here.

[mockingbyrd]

So are you saying that Jesus was not the incarnate God?

[.30Carbine]

...a J*sus who is the redeemer of the human race but fails to assure the salvation of any individuals.

That is not true. Here is my rebuttal:

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” ~Luke 23:43. See also:

Romans 4:16 -
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

2 Corinthians 1:22 -
set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 -
Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:14 -
who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

Hebrews 7:22 -
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

[.30Carbine]

Actually, Jews and Fundamentalist Protestants are the two peoples for whom Mary has no appeal whatsoever

That is not true. Here is my rebuttal:

1) Who are you to take it upon yourself to speak for all Jews and Fundamentalist Protestants?

2) I personally love, admire, study, seek to emulate, and find appeal in Mary, the mother of Jesus - not as "Mother of God," nor as "Queen of Heaven;" not because she is "Co-redemptress" or in any way a mediator between myself and my God.

Mary appeals to me because she was chosen by Almighty God to be the one woman in all of of human history to carry the seed of the Holy Spirit within her and give birth to the Messiah Jesus. That's pretty special, if you ask me. She is commended in Scripture for her humility and obedience, she has a quiet and gentle spirit; she is highly admirable and I not only find her appealing, I seek to emulate her.

[.30Carbine]

What I'm trying to do is to get the Catholics here to stop being so smug and superior

It is best to lead by example. (;

[.30Carbine]

...and take back the hurtful things I said earlier.

Once words are spoken they cannot be "taken back;" the damage has been done. Sin is like that. Once a transgression by fallen Man has been committed against Holy God it produces enmity and separation, for Holiness does not countenance Sin.

Love/Forgiveness from the offended party covers all infractions - whether between men or between men and God. Where do you find this necessary Love/Forgiveness in the Torah? My understanding of the Law is that apart from shed blood there is no remission of sins.

Please forgive me for anything I've hurtful I've said to you as well.

Pyro is actually asking for forgiveness, which, when given, will in fact cover the transgression and produce reconciliation.

Under the Torah, without the shedding of blood through a chosen mediator, how is the forgiveness of Holy God for your transgressions of His Law assured? How do you, sinful man, ask Holy God to forgive you, and how does He assure you of that forgiveness?

[NYer]

I think you mean "hackles"

Whooops ... sorry about that. And yes, English is my first language, or so I thought ;-)

[.30Carbine]

They [Noachides] don't pray to Mary or to J*sus because they had a relationship with G-d all along

Through whom, I wonder, is this relationship mediated and assured, for Moses understood and instituted (as a mediator) the practice of High Priesthood blood intercession - fallen man is cast out from the presence of Holy God without this go-between and this blood. Both the blood and the go-between are required since the fall of Man in the Garden, and all are descended from Adam and Eve.

The traditional argument against it is "it doesn't apply any more." But the thing is, everyone agrees that this "defunct" Revelation is from G-d while they can't agree on what replaced it!

If the Noachide belief is that this Torah is still in place, how is it being obeserved? How are the regulations - especially for blood sacrifice - being kept?

[Biggirl]

Thank-you for your response. EWTN, to its credit, with the help of both God and Mother Angelica bought the tapes of old faith tv shows such as Archbishop Sheen to be shown to new generations. Also I have a friend who lives in the Rochester, NY suburbs area and I am suprised that he has not said anything critical of this cathredral distruction of its insides. That cathredral is a historic building because it has been touched by the life Archbishop Sheen. All those changes must have cause Archbishop Sheen to spin in his grave.