Mary and the Muslims (an eye opener)

Catholic Military ^ | Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

[wmfights]

"Since Mary had a mother-son relationship with with the Second Person of the Trinity made flesh, she is truly the Mother of God."
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I read in the Chicago Tribune, sunday Perspective dated 6/25/06 that "American bishops voted to change the words that the faithful have said in mass for decades. Instead of saying that Jesus was "born of the Virgin Mary" Roman Catholics will now recite that he was "incarnate of the Virgin Mary".

Is this true and if so does it change your position that Mary was the "Mother of God"?

[wmfights]

Sorry for the triple post, my computer must be acting up.

[Lilllabettt]

Let's consider the age-old heresy of Nestorius. He was a bishop who claimed that the Blessed Virgin bore only Christ's human nature in her womb.

This heresy would have divided Christ into two separate persons, one human and one divine, only one of which was carried in the womb of the Blessed Virgin.

The Council of Ephesus, in the year 431 AD, defined that Mary can be referred to as the Mother of God, not meaning that she is older than God or His source, but in the sense that the person she carried in her womb was, truly in fact, God incarnate, God enfleshed.

Note that this ecumenical decree is just as much about Jesus as it is about Mary. It was designed to protect the sacred truth that Christ is one Divine person with two natures.
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This is a very ancient heresy, a very ancient Council. Theotokos, or God-bearer is a very ancient Marian title. The vast majority of Christians, from the earliest days of the Church until now, have confessed it.

Even today, those who wish to be provacative and incendiary where Christology is concerned, don't want to be anything as stale and dusty as Nestorian heretics.

[investigateworld]

>>>Do we seriously expect to live in peace while we wage war on the unborn, for instance, and our own hands are dripping with blood? Are we going to come before God and ask him to protect us from the Muslim murderer while we ourselves are busy butchering his own children in the womb? <<<

An Amen from the Protestant corner.

[Pyro7480]

Is this true and if so does it change your position that Mary was the "Mother of God"?

It doesn't change the belief it all. It's just a better translation, instead of the slightly dumbed-down "born of the Virgin Mary." The line in the Latin text (the origin Creed text was in Greek) is incarnátus est de Spíritu Sancto ex María Vírgine: Et homo factus est. This translates as, "[He] And He became flesh by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary: and was made man." Earlier in the Creed, Catholics (along with the Eastern Orthodox and some Protestant denominations) state their belief in "one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God. Born of the Father before all ages. God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God. Begotten, not made, of one substance with the Father."

[restornu]

MARY The Qu'ran, which is the Bible for the Muslims, has many passages concerning the Blessed Virgin. First of all, the Qu'ran believes in her Immaculate Conception, and also in her Virgin Birth. The third chapter of the Qu'ran places the history of Mary's family in a genealogy which goes back through Abraham, Noah, and Adam.

When one compares the Qu'ran's description of the birth of Mary with the apocryphal Gospel of the birth of Mary, one is tempted to believe that Mohammed very much depended upon the latter.

Both books describe the old age and the definite sterility of the mother of Mary. When, however, she conceives, the mother of Mary is made to say in the Qu'ran: "O Lord, I vow and I consecrate to you what is already within me. Accept it from me."

When Mary is born, the mother says: And I consecrate her with all of her posterity under thy protection, O Lord, against Satan!"

The Qu'ran passes over Joseph in the life of Mary, but the Muslim tradition knows his name and has some familiarity with him. In this tradition, Joseph is made to speak to Mary, who is a virgin. As he inquired how she conceived Jesus without a father, Mary answered:

Do you not know that God, when he created the wheat had no need of seed, and that God by his power made the trees grow without the help of rain? All that God had to do was to say, 'So be it, and it was done.'

The Qu'ran was also verses on the Annunciation, Visitation, and Nativity. Angels are pictured as accompanying the Blessed Mother and saying: "Oh, Mary, God has chosen you and purified you, and elected you above all the women of the earth." In the nineteenth chapter of the Qu'ran there are 41 verses on Jesus and Mary. There is such a strong defense of the virginity of Mary here that the Qu'ran, in the fourth book, attributed the condemnation of the Jews to their monstrous calumny against the Virgin Mary.

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Moses 3
God created all things spiritually before they were naturally upon the earth—First man and first flesh created—Woman a help meet for man.

But they ignore that Jesus was the Only Begotten Son of Heaven Father!

[NYer]

I read in the Chicago Tribune, sunday Perspective dated 6/25/06 that "American bishops voted to change the words that the faithful have said in mass for decades. Instead of saying that Jesus was "born of the Virgin Mary" Roman Catholics will now recite that he was "incarnate of the Virgin Mary".

Is this true and if so does it change your position that Mary was the "Mother of God"?

Do you understand the word "inarnate"? It means "made flesh".

By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.

[HarleyD]

Harley, we've had these discussions before.

Yes, I don't wish to discuss the veneration of Mary (at least not now). I'm simply trying to point out that nowhere in the article does this author talk about "preaching Christ crucified" as a method of bring Muslims to salvation. You may think some will make the connection between Mary and Christ. I do not.

[Maeve]

Our Lady of Zeytoun, pray for us.

[RobbyS]

As those who lose devotion to her lose belief in the divinity of Christ, so those who intensify devotion to her gradually acquire that belief.

True.

[Jack of all Trades]

mark

[Convert from ECUSA]

"A Catholic/"Muzlim" (sic) alliance? LOL! Tinfoil alert!"



If, Heaven forbid, the muzzies ever take over, they will murder ALL Christians, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, etc. They could care less about any of the differences between different Christians, we're all "infidels" to them anyway.

[wmfights]

"Do you understand the word "inarnate"? It means "made flesh". "

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't sure how your church was using the word.
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"She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body."

This head of the mystical body stuff is where respect and admiration for a wonderful person devolves into cult type behavior. All this does is move the focus from the only source of our salvation JESUS.

[Pyro7480]

All this does is move the focus from the only source of our salvation JESUS.

Jesus is the head of the Mystical Body.

[wmfights]

"Jesus is the head of the Mystical Body."
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I may have misunderstood what Nyer was saying than. If so I certainly apologize for any error.

[NYer]

You may think some will make the connection between Mary and Christ. I do not.

Because you are not a Muslim.

The author begins with the logical approach that Muslims will not accept Christ as Savior because they believe Him to be a prophet. In order to reach them, one must find 'common ground'. That would be Mary. Since Mary brings all men to her Son, the author proposes that dialogue begin with our Lady of Fatima and progress from there.

[HarleyD]

The author begins with the logical approach that Muslims will not accept Christ as Savior because they believe Him to be a prophet.

How does that differ from preaching to an atheist? What about preaching to a Buddhist or Hindu? What "religious" common ground would you find with them? Personally I don't believe you need to find "common ground". I'm not talking about a "Jack Chick-in-your-face" approach. I am talking about preaching Christ.

And, no, Mary does not bring "all men" to her Son. Philip brought Nathanael to Christ.

[AliVeritas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBXBaH0mNUs

[x_plus_one]

The missionary effort of the Church toward this group has been, at least on the surface, a failure.

The success of Islam is the failure of Christianity.

[Traianus]

Yes Mohammed LOVED Mary....
He wanted to know her in “BIBLICAL SENSE”.....
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/mary.htm