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To: murphE

You are correct in one sense, but I think you're wrong in another.

Salvation is only through the Catholic Church, however, you are discounting the power of God to provide the dying soul with enough enlightenment at the moment of death to choose or reject the Church. It's not defined, but certainly a theological possibility, since it does not nullify the words of Pope Boniface that salvation comes through the Catholic Church.

St. Dismas seems to be a type of this grace offered at time of death...

What are your thoughts?


9 posted on 06/21/2006 9:00:01 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: Rutles4Ever
Salvation is only through the Catholic Church, however, you are discounting the power of God to provide the dying soul with enough enlightenment at the moment of death to choose or reject the Church. It's not defined, but certainly a theological possibility, since it does not nullify the words of Pope Boniface that salvation comes through the Catholic Church.

For folks teetering on the edge of accepting the call to God, DON'T FALL FOR THIS LIE...It will send you straight to Hell...

Find a local Bible believing church...Skip the fancy, ornate church buildings and people wearing robes...The Bible warns against these things...

Jesus said "Come onto ME, and I will give you rest"...Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life...No man can come unto the Father (God) but by ME"...

Call on Jesus...He will save you, without a church...But find a small local church anyway...

16 posted on 06/21/2006 10:30:55 AM PDT by Iscool (I spent MOST of my MONEY on cold beer and hot women...The REST, I just wasted ...)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Salvation is only through the Catholic Church

Weird, my bible says:

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ

2 Thessalonians 2:13 - But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2 Timothy 3:15 - and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 2:10 - For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings (of Jesus Christ).

It's not defined, but certainly a theological possibility, since it does not nullify the words of Pope Boniface that salvation comes through the Catholic Church.

I couldn't find Mr. Boniface in my bible.
26 posted on 06/21/2006 11:53:48 AM PDT by Sopater (Creatio Ex Nihilo)
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To: Rutles4Ever
"Salvation is only through the Catholic Church"

LOL!

Salvation is through Jesus Christ, not the "Catholic church" or any other "church". In many "churches" Christ is NOT present nor the Holy Spirit.

John 3:14-19

[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

I could NEVER be Catholic because it violates what God states. I elevate God's Word over the words of ANY fallible mortal or fallible "church". You've just provided an additional example of such a violation.
35 posted on 06/21/2006 1:56:05 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) !)
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To: Rutles4Ever
You are correct in one sense, but I think you're wrong in another.

Your argument is not with me, I just quoted infallible doctrinal statements of the Church.

you are discounting the power of God to provide the dying soul with enough enlightenment at the moment of death to choose or reject the Church.

None of the doctrinal statements I quoted do that. In fact, from Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441, : "unless before death they are joined with Her", pretty much covers it. We cannot say any particular person is in hell with certainty, but we do know that there are souls there. I think it's best not to leave it up to chance counting on last minute graces. If a person has refused God's grace all throughout life, and remained outside the Church, I think it unlikely that he will have a sudden about face at the moment before death, but I don't deny the possibility, nor the possibility of God sending St. Peter himself to baptize him.

51 posted on 06/21/2006 5:49:24 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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