OK, now we're getting somewhere. So you believe it is possible for a human being to exist without original sin and without personal sin and yet these people are not gods?
So why get so bent out of shape when we claim Mary is conceived without original sin? Why accuse us of making her into a diety?
Do you get the point yet? "Sinless human" does not equal "diety." It didn't for Adam and Eve and it doesn't for Mary.
Were Adam and Eve conceived in a womb, were they born from a womb? Mary was. She was the product of an honest to goodness sexual encounter...just like you and me.
Do you think something in the sex act itself makes babies sinful?
I thought Catholics were the sexually repressed ones.
SD
No, I'm saying that Adam and Eve do not equate with Mary. You've taken a leap with saying that Adam and Eve were created without sin and that Mary was BORN without sin.
Adam and Eve were, at one time sinless - - at that time they were with God, he dwelt with them, walked beside them (not as Christ[God incarnate] but as God). Then Adam and Eve sinned and were separated from him.
Since that time we have all been separate from him, until he comes to dwell in us. So are you saying because the Christ dwelt within Mary's womb she was without original sin?
OK, now we're getting somewhere. So you believe it is possible for a human being to exist without original sin and without personal sin and yet these people are not gods?
So why get so bent out of shape when we claim Mary is conceived without original sin? Why accuse us of making her into a diety?
Do you get the point yet? "Sinless human" does not equal "diety." It didn't for Adam and Eve and it doesn't for Mary
Flesh begot flesh...Adam and Eve did become sinful and we all bear the consequences and shame of sin in our lives. Mary's mother and father were sinners as well. It is reasonable to conclude that Mary was conceived and born with the same sinful nature as she is the daughter of a man and a woman who were full of sin just like you and me. Did God purify her for Jesus to be carried within her womb? Very possible as all thing are possible with God! That being said scripture does not show us any further comments on Mary's sinless or sinful ways after her the miraculous birth of her son and our Lord. Full of grace? You bet she was, she was full of the Holy Spirit for He was with her to bring the Messiah for the world...Talk about being blessed!!
One thing I don't understand from your posts is how you view humans not as sinful from birth as the psalmist says and Paul tells us time and again that we are natural enemies of God becuase of our "sinful nature". It's nothing we crazy "prottys" are making up. Paul lays it out pretty simply and clearly in the epistles. Paul demonstrates in many different verses how we could never be saved without God finding us thru the Spirit. Show me the man who, without being brought to God by the Holy Spirit, will reject the sinful flesh and choose the way of th Spirit...Only Christ did this...man will always choose the ways of the flesh unless he is brought to God by the Spirit and even then we all far too often choose the way of our sinful flesh. That's original sin, that's our nature due to the fall of our orignal parents. We are born slaves to sin, but become slaves to Christ...
I know you have the utmost love for Christ and I respect that immensely...please know my posting is sent with respect for your conviction...Blessing in Christ to you and yours!