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To: Rytwyng; Agrarian
Interestingly, he asserts that the Eastern Orthodox don't have this problem.

Having left the (thorougly-feminized) Episcopal Church for Orthodoxy a year ago, I can testify this is correct. Men (and families) are welcomed instead of blamed for evil patriarchy.

I find it interesting that most women respond well to a more masculine approach to worship. Maybe they are just happy at anything that will get their husbands into church!

34 posted on 06/13/2006 12:45:57 PM PDT by Martin Tell
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To: Martin Tell; Rytwyng

Part of the reason why we don't have this problem is that men are held responsible for the conduct of the services. Only men may be ordained even to the lowest order of "reader," and only boys may be altar servers and go into the altar (other than a few highly specialized and unusual situations.)

Since the prayers, psalm and Scripture reading, etc. are pretty much all assigned in our service books to a reader, deacon, priest, or bishop, there is very little that women should be doing in the conduct of the services other than singing in the choir -- unless there aren't any men available to do these things.

Not all Orthodox parishes follow all of this as strictly as should be -- but it is a necessary counterweight of the natural inclination of men to turn church over to the women so they can stay home and watch football. The men just have to rise to the occasion. I am constantly looking and grooming men, young and old, to assist in the services.

To tell the truth, women seem (as MT says) to rest comfortably in male leadership. They run the parish in all of the important ways (social outreach, meals, telling their husbands what to do once they get home), but in church, it is a male thing. The key is that service in the church is *service* -- it is not something one *gets* to do, but rather something one has the responsibility to do, and *has* to do.

The Calvinist church of my childhood was like this, but it has since been lost. The other non-Orthodox parish that really got it right was my continuing Anglican parish that I attended for a couple of years, prior to becoming Orthodox. Every able-bodied man was required to actively participate in the services. About 5 of us with the most liturgical knowledge and aptitude were lectors/subdeacons, and assisted at the altar. All the boys were required to serve in the altar. All other men were required to act as ushers on a rotating basis -- there was no "asking" about it. It was treated as a solemn responsibility that you were required to do, as a male, if you wanted to attend the parish. We had absolutely no problems with male attendance in that parish, nor do we have problems with male attendance in Orthodox parishes that are run properly.

Once service in the Church becomes a "pink-collar" profession -- it is a self-fulfilling prophecy that no man will want to serve in it. Unless he likes wearing pink collars, which is quite another issue...


84 posted on 06/13/2006 11:02:27 PM PDT by Agrarian
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