The Apostles' Creed in Public and Private Worship

"What is clear, however, is that hell is the total absence of God and divine love and mercy, a burning pain far worse than fire."

Interesting and surprising. This is very different from what Orthodoxy teaches. For us, God's love is like a fire, for good or for ill. +Isaac the Syrian, a saint espeically revered by Eastern Christians (which is why Fr.'s comment about the absence of God's love surprises me), wrote in his Homily 84:

"I say that those who are suffering in hell, are suffering in being scourged by love. ... It is totally false to think that the sinners in hell are deprived of God's love. Love is a child of the knowledge of truth, and is unquestionably given commonly to all. But love's power acts in two ways: it torments sinners, while at the same time it delights those who have lived in accord with it."

And +Basil the Great, in his Homily 13 sec.2 Exhortation to Holy Baptism, says that the sword of fire was placed at the gate of Paradise to guard the approach to the tree of life; it was terrible and burning toward infidels, but kindly and accessible toward the faithful, bringing to them the light of day.

In any event, NYer, what the priest is writing about is the situation of the damned after the Final Judgment, after the end of time, not the situation spoken of in the Apostles' Creed or the Roman Catechism.

For us, God's love is like a fire, for good or for ill. +Isaac the Syrian, a saint espeically revered by Eastern Christians (which is why Fr.'s comment about the absence of God's love surprises me)

That's an interesting concept. As you may know, the old Roman Canon (Anaphora), after the Consecration, has a prayer in commemoration of the dead. The Latin text reads:
Memento etiam, Domine, famulorum famularumque tuarum N. et N. qui nos praecesserunt cum signo fidei, et dormiunt in somno pacis. Ipsis, Domine, et omnibus in Christo quiescentibus, locum refrigerii, lucis et pacis, ut indulgeas, deprecamur. Per eumdem Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.

"Remember also, Lord, Your servants and handmaids (name) and (name) who have gone before us with the sign of faith and rest in the sleep of peace. To these, Lord, and to all who rest in Christ, we beg You to grant of Your goodness a place of coolness (the key word is refrigerii - think "refrigerate" - it's often translated as "comfort"), light, and peace. Through Christ our Lord. Amen."

"As you may know, the old Roman Canon (Anaphora), after the Consecration, has a prayer in commemoration of the dead. The Latin text reads:
Memento etiam, Domine, famulorum famularumque tuarum N. et N. qui nos praecesserunt cum signo fidei, et dormiunt in somno pacis. Ipsis, Domine, et omnibus in Christo quiescentibus, locum refrigerii, lucis et pacis, ut indulgeas, deprecamur. Per eumdem Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen."

Indeed I do remember that anaphora. Here is part of our version of the same prayer which is said at funerals and memorial services:

"O God of spirits and of all flesh, Who has trampled down Death and overthrown the Devil, and given life unto Your world, give, we beseech You, eternal rest to the soul of Your departed servant, in a place of refreshment, in a place of verdure, in a place of repose, from whence all pain, sorrow, and sighing, have fled away."

That's not the best translation, but the Greek word for refreshment used in the prayer means a cool sort of refreshment. The only thing I can think of as a analogy in English is like the effect of a cool, wet, juicy cucumber. I think the East and the West are on the same page on this one.

That's not the best translation, but the Greek word for refreshment used in the prayer means a cool sort of refreshment. The only thing I can think of as a analogy in English is like the effect of a cool, wet, juicy cucumber. I think the East and the West are on the same page on this one.

Yeah, I noticed one translation used "refreshment" while another used "coolness." Both are valid. In fact, this has carried over into Spanish, according to my friend who is fluent in the language. "Frescura" can mean both "coolness" and "freshness."

...we beg You to grant of Your goodness a place of coolness (the key word is refrigerii - think "refrigerate" - it's often translated as "comfort"), light, and peace.

That is interesting. I have been attending "the Old Latin Mass" semi-regularly since last August. I have 2 Old Latin/English Missals published in 1953 and 1961, and a "Booklet Missal" published by the Coalition In Support of Ecclesia Dei in 2004. My 2 older Missals render this phrase as "a place of comfort, light, and peace". The newer Ecclesia Dei publication translates it as "a place of refreshment, light, and peace". It is interesting to note the subtle variations in English translations between the three publications.

While I was at it, I also checked out the The Creed (Credo) in the old Latin Mass (which one Missal also refers to as "Credo" even in English, whereas the two other Missals refer to it as the "Nicene Creed"). It looks like in the old Latin Mass, they got around the issue of how to refer to the place of the dead by simply not making any reference to it at all. Here is the Latin text (without all the fancy extra marks because my keyboard won't do them - all errors and typos are my fault):

"Crucifixus etiam pro nobis: sub Pontio Pilato passus, et sepultus est. Et resurrexit tertia die, secundum Scripturas. Et ascendit in caelum: sedet ad dexteram Patris."

The three Missals all translate this to English in basicly the same way, with minor variations:

1953 Missal: He was also crucified for us, suffered under Pontius Pilate and was buried. And on the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascending into Heaven, He sitteth at the right hand of the Father.

1961 Missal: Identical, word for word, to the 1953 Missal.

2004 Booklet Missal: He was crucified also for us, suffered under Pontius Pilate, and was buried. And on the third day He rose again according to the scriptures. And He ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father.

Interesting to note that the word "Heaven" is capitalized in the two older Missals, but not capitalized in the newer Ecclesia Dei Booklet Missal (as shown above). Is this just a typo, or a difference of opinion??

Either way, as you can see, no mention of descending into Hell or to any other places of the dead. What's up with that?? If there was no reference to Hell in the Tridentine Rite, when was it added?? In the Novus Ordo??

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.